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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...
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SleeperAwakes Offline
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Post: #1
If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

If there were the choice of wisdom and understanding over friends and normality, which is better?
Wisdom brings the heart into the mind, allowing one to act as one might call best for the situation for both the emotional and the mental. But what are the downsides of this?
And being normal. Would being a part of something be more important? Isn't it that friendships are the the key part of any life? Who else could you depend on? Why give this up for the sake of something you could gain with time?
Or for vice-versa?

What I give form to in daylight is only one per cent of what I have seen in darkness.
M. C. Escher
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The nearest to my heart are a king without a kingdom and a poor man who does not know how to beg.
Khalil Gibran

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04-28-2008 11:03 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #2
Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Who said you wouldn't have friendships if you were wise? I'd argue that you wouldn't have real friends if you were "normal" anyway.

I'd go for the wisdom. You could even use the wisdom to pretend to be "normal" and have "normal" friends too, if you wanted to.

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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04-28-2008 11:16 AM
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Ahab Offline
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Post: #3
Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

None. Both are terrible concepts. I'm not wise, nor rich, and I have no desire to be. If I can do what I want with myself and live comfortably from it, this is my goal.

"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit." - Robert Anton Wilson
04-28-2008 11:31 AM
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SleeperAwakes Offline
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Post: #4
Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

See, I always figured that wisdom would be better, but not to such an extent that would drive away friends.
But, I read somewhere that with wisdom comes sorrow.
But I was hoping for conversation, not a debate.

What I give form to in daylight is only one per cent of what I have seen in darkness.
M. C. Escher
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The nearest to my heart are a king without a kingdom and a poor man who does not know how to beg.
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04-28-2008 12:10 PM
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wyldstryke Offline
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Post: #5
Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

if ignorance was bliss, twas folly to be wise

or something like that. i figure as long as you arent too smart for your own good, then wisdom is the way to go Yes

i mean, i figure without wisdom, you'll end up like Stabhead

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04-28-2008 12:15 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Quote:See, I always figured that wisdom would be better, but not to such an extent that would drive away friends.

It depends on whether or not you try to talk about wise things with your friends. If you have friends who are also wise, that's great though. But if not, you just won't be able to talk about that sort of thing with them. That doesn't mean you can't still hang out with them and do other stuff.

If your being wise actually drives them away, then I guess they weren't really friends in the first place.

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04-28-2008 01:01 PM
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Puchiko Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

I'd choose wisdom. Wisdom will help me earn the money so I can become rich.

Don't take life so seriously, it isn't permanent.
04-29-2008 05:17 AM
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NiteRaidah Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

I'm going to side with Ahab here, and add some ideas of my own.

If you were rich, then there would be certain advantages, yes, but numerous disadvantages. I'm not of the mind that "money can't but happiness", but really, being rich doesn't guarantee an easy-rollin' life.

Wisdom, now that would come with responsibilities (duh). As the old sage in the town, those damn neighborhood kids would be bugging you every blasted day about what the meaning of life is, how they can get money, why their boyfriend/girlfriend won't put out, and so on. Laugh

Joking aside, I feel that wisdom would be difficult to attain. I view it as somewhat of a bonus, really. Something nice, but it takes a hell of a lot of effort to get to it. As well, once attaining wisdom, you may find out that you really don't need it at all.

I could live with either option, but it's a simple life for me, thanks. No excess trimmings for me.

"All these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
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04-29-2008 05:52 AM
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SleeperAwakes Offline
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Post: #9
Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

It could easily be either way. Which was why I was curious about what people would say about such choices.
Wisdom, or being rich, does come with resposibilities, true. But wouldn't it be more of a goal?
For instance, friendship could also be a goal. Like if you could focus on who you are, and who you have around you. It's attaining a title that you still have to get yourself, but to a different view.
Is it possible to aim for both? Gaining knowledge and understanding while socializing, thus learning from being in the proximity of others?

What I give form to in daylight is only one per cent of what I have seen in darkness.
M. C. Escher
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The nearest to my heart are a king without a kingdom and a poor man who does not know how to beg.
Khalil Gibran

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04-30-2008 05:37 AM
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NiteRaidah Offline
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Post: #10
Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

SleeperAwakes Wrote:Wisdom, or being rich, does come with resposibilities, true. But wouldn't it be more of a goal?

Yes, but a goal that would take a while to attain. Not that I think the time taken is a bad thing, mind, but what happens if you put a fair amount of effort into them, and it proved not to be as good as advertised, so to speak?

Quote:For instance, friendship could also be a goal. Like if you could focus on who you are, and who you have around you. It's attaining a title that you still have to get yourself, but to a different view.

Good point.

Quote:Is it possible to aim for both? Gaining knowledge and understanding while socializing, thus learning from being in the proximity of others?

Going for the goals of friendship and wisdom? Certainly, one or the other is attainable by itself. Both? A bit more effort. It depends on a lot of factors, like what kind of person you are (if you are an introvert, for example, and choose to keep to yourself).

"All these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
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04-30-2008 05:42 AM
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Ahab Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

It's never about the goal point, but the goal itself. Usually most people dont get the goal, but the happiest people tend to pursue them regardless and love life as a result. Most of what we think will give us what we want in life never really gets you what you want, and that's why so many people fail. It's easy to assume you need enlightenment or need something, but perhaps we already are there; the goals are just stuff we want that we dont nessecarily need but well go for it anyways to have the fun along the way.

"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit." - Robert Anton Wilson
04-30-2008 12:56 PM
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SleeperAwakes Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Having fun is definitely a factor, true. And life is only a string of time, measured by the individual. You need something to do during that time.
Some set goals and do them.
Some watch life and do what they can on the spot.
It's really all what you learn along the way. No one can control it but you in the end, right?
Good point, Ahab.

What I give form to in daylight is only one per cent of what I have seen in darkness.
M. C. Escher
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The nearest to my heart are a king without a kingdom and a poor man who does not know how to beg.
Khalil Gibran

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04-30-2008 01:55 PM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Definately wise. You can use that to get a good job that you enjoy, make good friends, etc. Fuck those rich SOBs. Money is not happiness.

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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

The Avenger Wrote:Definately wise. You can use that to get a good job that you enjoy, make good friends, etc. Fuck those rich SOBs. Money is not happiness.

woah dude
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03-11-2009 09:02 AM
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classclown Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

i choose none of the above. i dont want wisdom cause there are some things i dont wanna understand. i dont want friends cause feelings get in the way of things.

Quote:I'd go for the wisdom. You could even use the wisdom to pretend to be "normal" and have "normal" friends too, if you wanted to.

what happens when they find your fake. its not hard to reliese when people are un attached. besides liveing a lie is not the way to go.

life is just blah blah blah. we hope for blah, and sometimes we find it. but mostly its blah. and waiting for blah. and hoping you were right about the blahs you made. and when you think you just got the whole blah damn thing figured out, and your surrounded by the ones you blah. death shows up and blah blah blah.
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Death may be the greatest of all human blessings. -socrates-

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03-11-2009 10:18 AM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Wisdom and riches come hand and hand.
You can gain one and still gain the other but I agree with a early poster who said that there are somethings we don't wanna know.

My choice could include gain riches and still gain wisdom or gain wisdom and use it to gain riches.

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03-11-2009 12:22 PM
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SleeperAwakes Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Though in today's world I wonder, is wisdom really riches? Nowadays we see people who are titled wise separated from those titled rich. Some are lucky, having found the path that led them to be where they are now because of fitting circumstances. (Bill Gates, for example) But are they wise? What challenges have they gone through since then?
Gandhi, a well known figure often attributed to the idea of wisdom. Was he rich? Like everyone else, his experiences led him to where he ended up, built him, refined his personality, honed his knowledge and understanding.

Yes, there are some things we don't want or need to know. Certainly there are things people would be better off being ignorant of.
But in the same respect are there things we do not want to experience? Lives we do not wish to lead, things we do not wish to see, hear, or interfere with?
In this idea, is this the reason that our nation has become so complacent?
"Ignorance is bliss." If this is true, then is it also playing the card that one is innocent if uninvolved, feigning ignorance of a crime, not becoming involved in petitions, movements, or parades that have good intentions for change; hoping in some way that there will be no punishment because they were unopposed to it?
Students are punished if they are in any way connected to a fight. Intentions aside, we as a nation are being trained not to stop conflict. Not to help the skinny kid who's mom always told him not to fight, not even against the bully inside the classroom. Not to help a friend. Not to defend a right, a belief, a rule. Not to disrupt the day. Not to be the exception. Not to be the reason someone didn't get hurt.

Some people can't help not knowing. Those who know cannot help but have the information. But what is done because of it? What are we losing?

... This is why I chose wisdom. Knowing is only part of the issue. The other part is knowing when to use it.

What I give form to in daylight is only one per cent of what I have seen in darkness.
M. C. Escher
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The nearest to my heart are a king without a kingdom and a poor man who does not know how to beg.
Khalil Gibran

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03-12-2009 04:32 AM
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random_name Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

SleeperAwakes Wrote:If there were the choice of wisdom and understanding over friends and normality, which is better?
Wisdom brings the heart into the mind, allowing one to act as one might call best for the situation for both the emotional and the mental. But what are the downsides of this?
And being normal. Would being a part of something be more important? Isn't it that friendships are the the key part of any life? Who else could you depend on? Why give this up for the sake of something you could gain with time?
Or for vice-versa?

To be honest, i dont think wisdom should have to effect your freindships or 'normality'. If you were rich, a lot of your freinds would probably only be your freinds to sponge off you anyway. I would choose wisdom over money, for that precise reason.

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03-12-2009 04:39 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Quote:Intentions aside, we as a nation are being trained not to stop conflict. Not to help the skinny kid who's mom always told him not to fight, not even against the bully inside the classroom. Not to help a friend. Not to defend a right, a belief, a rule. Not to disrupt the day. Not to be the exception. Not to be the reason someone didn't get hurt.
Not just the nation, the whole world. But yeah, I'd definitely pick wisdom over money. Intelligence is bliss, not ignorance.

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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

SoulRiser Wrote:Intelligence is bliss, not ignorance.

I'm gonna contest you on this one, Soul. Do school kids want to be intellegent of people making fun of them? I would expect not, consitering the circumstances.
03-12-2009 06:36 AM
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

If you're intelligent enough, you won't care what they're saying. And by intelligent I also mean mentally strong, which isn't really that easy to achieve. That's real bliss, more than just being unaware of bad stuff, but being fully aware of it and not having it affect you negatively.

EDIT: But yeah, back when that shit was happening to me every day, I would have preferred to not be aware of it. On the other hand, without all that I'd probably be a different person today, so I'm actually glad it all happened. Cuckoo

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03-12-2009 07:28 AM
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Re: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Abuse does crazy things to the mind, myes. And I didn't look at it like that :3
03-12-2009 11:39 AM
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RE: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

always chose to be wise, because wisdom is the key for richness.And don't forget king Solomon story.
12-14-2011 03:28 PM
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RE: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Rich. I would spend the money of richness on many illegal drugs and prostitutes, enjoying life more than writing bullshit books high school students are forced to read.
12-15-2011 06:21 AM
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Post: #25
RE: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

When I have money, I'm going to give all I don't need to unicef and organizations that help free slaves.

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12-15-2011 07:38 AM
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RE: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

At this point I would rather have wealth.

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12-15-2011 11:36 AM
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Post: #27
RE: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Wisdom. Take your money and go home. Once wise, I can live without it.

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12-17-2011 07:18 PM
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RE: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

"Dont gain the gold and lose your soul
Wisdom is better than silver and gold"

Bob Marley.

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12-17-2011 11:35 PM
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RE: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

(12-17-2011 11:35 PM)Elfy Wrote:  "Dont gain the gold and lose your soul
Wisdom is better than silver and gold"

Bob Marley.

Isn't he dead?

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RE: If the choice were given to be a wise man or a rich man...

Words and ideas are bulletproof.

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12-18-2011 12:37 AM
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