9/11 Zeitgeist

[liq3]

I know this has been posted before. Theres new members now though :]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_E4N5YIycI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECMJ2LBK90Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSW1x_h4Kfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSDOb7NcgE

Watch them, in order. About 40 mins. Then vote.

For tl;dr watch the second one.

[Happy Camper]

I find it funny how so many 911 conspiracy projects tell you to be skeptical of what the media and government tell you, and basically use the same compelling brainwashing techniques to make their point.

I don't think there was any malicious intent or US involvement in the 9/11 attacks. But that isn't to say they're completely off the hook. There were warning signs and they didn't do shit about it.

It's a compelling video (even though I wish things were sourced back to be more credible) and I'll admit... I have some skepticism over what actually happened concerning 9/11. But I think it's safe to say it wasn't an inside job. That's giving the Bush administration way too much credit.

This is opinion.

[liq3]

Happy Camper Wrote:That's giving the Bush administration way too much credit.

Is it? They manipulated America to support the war on Iraq last I checked. If they can get tens of millions of people to support sending thousands to their deaths, why can't they stage a plane crash and towers falling?

[Abandoning Ship]

9/11 was a rallying cry for America, so to speak. After the attacks, people were afraid, and vengeful, so they turn to their government to protect them. All the government asks in return is the peoples complete and total obedience without question. And everyone says yes. This is right after Bush comes into office, where he is greeted by thousands of protesters after he's sworn in.

The attacks were the perfect tool to take control of America. In addition to that, many big-leaguers, including Rudy Guliani, got a huge profit from the attacks (The owner of the Twin Towers filed an insurance claim specifically for acts of terrorism, right before the attacks.), and in the destruction of WTC7, important documents were lost.

The big leagues got their fat checks, the government got their control. Too many people have gained from this for it to be a random terrorist act, if you ask me.

[liq3]

ATXTheKiller Wrote:9/11 was a rallying cry for America, so to speak. After the attacks, people were afraid, and vengeful, so they turn to their government to protect them. All the government asks in return is the peoples complete and total obedience without question. And everyone says yes. This is right after Bush comes into office, where he is greeted by thousands of protesters after he's sworn in.

The attacks were the perfect tool to take control of America. In addition to that, many big-leaguers, including Rudy Guliani, got a huge profit from the attacks (The owner of the Twin Towers filed an insurance claim specifically for acts of terrorism, right before the attacks.), and in the destruction of WTC7, important documents were lost.

The big leagues got their fat checks, the government got their control. Too many people have gained from this for it to be a random terrorist act, if you ask me.

Fucking exactly.

[NiteRaidah]

*b'Jesus*

9/11 was not a fucking inside job. The Pentagon wasn't hit by a missile. There wasn't a truck bomb driven into the WTC or the Pentagon. The fire that melted the WTC steel became hot enough after some time, hence the eventual collapse.

I could go on, and on. It's truly sad that there are some people deluded enough to think that the government, which isn't even competent enough to keep secret documents from the New York Times, somehow managed to pull off the destruction of the World Trade Center towers and the damage to the Pentagon.

[liq3]

NiteRaidah Wrote:It's truly sad that there are some people deluded enough to think that the government, which isn't even competent enough to keep secret documents from the New York Times

liq3 Wrote:They manipulated America to support the war on Iraq last I checked. If they can get tens of millions of people to support sending thousands to their deaths, why can't they stage a plane crash and towers falling?

[NiteRaidah]

I'm just going to ask before, are you referring to the gubmint in general, or the Bush Administration?

[liq3]

NiteRaidah Wrote:I'm just going to ask before, are you referring to the gubmint in general, or the Bush Administration?

First one.

[NiteRaidah]

Ah, then. Thanks for clearing that up.

I think that it's kind of a leap of faith that the entire government is somehow competent enough to not only fool America into thinking that, not only was 9/11 a terrorist attack, but that we've also been duped into Iraq. That's a couple hundred people all in this, then.

[liq3]

How? Does anyone REALLY know what they do? Also, 200 people is like 0.000000006% of the population of America. They could all easily have 200 IQ according to the bell curve. (I think). 200 people with 200 IQ in control of a country? They could do anything they want.

[NiteRaidah]

liq3 Wrote:How? Does anyone REALLY know what they do?

Erm, then, how do you "know" that the government was behind 9/11.

[rAnx]

liq3 Wrote:How? Does anyone REALLY know what they do? Also, 200 people is like 0.000000006% of the population of America. They could all easily have 200 IQ according to the bell curve. (I think). 200 people with 200 IQ in control of a country? They could do anything they want.

If nobody really knows what *they* do, then why fret over the speculation of what they might do? If we can't know and can't find out whether or not such a system might exist, then whatever happens is inevitable, and thus removes any reason for us to worry about it: we cannot stop it. By postulating such things we only subject ourselves the fearmongering that we spurn so many politicians for doing.

Also, when you refer to the whole government as the perpetrators, to exactly whom are you referring to? Dems? Repubs? The bush administration? What levels specifically?

[Abandoning Ship]

NiteRaidah Wrote:

liq3 Wrote:How? Does anyone REALLY know what they do?

Erm, then, how do you "know" that the government was behind 9/11.

Scientific evidence, numerous "coincidences", huge logical and factual holes in the official story, etc.

[liq3]

NiteRaidah Wrote:

liq3 Wrote:How? Does anyone REALLY know what they do?

Erm, then, how do you "know" that the government was behind 9/11.

Red Herring ftw?

Let me sum up those videos in a nut shell.

I have strong reason to believe it was staged by the government. The beams on the TWCs were cut, molten metal was found in the wreckage. This metal was at 2000F. That is 200F hotter then jet fuel can even burn. There was no show for the videos of the plane hitting the pentagon, etc. The TWCs fell at free fall speed. These are the first time EVER steel buildings have fallen from being on fire. The so called plane that hit the pentagon was, according to official reports, vaporized by the explosion. This is SCIENTIFICALLY impossible.

There is a huge amount of evidence saying it was done using explosives and not the result of being hit by airliners. And yes, I intentionally left out the gov, since right now, I want you to explain how all of this EVIDENCE is false.

[Double]

liq3, why don't you just say that you think it was an inside job? You don't need to convince everyone, if so, what's the use of a poll?

[liq3]

Why can't we have a poll mixed with a debate thread? xD

[Rebelnerd]

i think Bush knew it was most likely going to happen and did nothing. but all this bullshit about staging crashes and missiles and explosives planted in the base of the towers is completely ridiculous for one simple reason: it's the worst plan ever. if they wanted to stage a terrorist attack, and i wouldn't put it past them, the plan outlined in "documentaries" like Loose Change is possibly the most risky, complicated, convoluted, insane Road Runner/Coyote scheme imaginable. all they would have had to do was use a few federal agents to pose as FAA and plant weapons on planes, then leak it to al Qaeda through one of their moles and say other terrorists had set it up for them.
or, they could have just taken retired civilian aircraft, fixed them up into flying condition, and used them to do the attacks. no point in using a missile, where you run the risk of people seeing it.
or, they could have repainted military aircraft to look like the "hijacked" flights and used them while quietly disposing of the real ones.
or, they could have...done one of any million other plans where so many fewer things could have gone wrong. use your heads people, fuzzy photos with spooky music in the background does not a documentary make.

[thewake]

I, personally, don't think that it would even have been in the government's interest to have done that. What if the Northeast Coast had of went into mass panic, or even the whole country?

Now I wouldn't put it past them to do something like that if it really would have helped them, but it was risky and if it is like the plan in the conspiracy videos it is freaking shoddy. How come nobody saw them walk in?

Also, I'd keep my mouth shut about conspiracy theories lest you find something that is true and then you will disappear.

[Abandoning Ship]

Probably Weswammy Wrote:Also, I'd keep my mouth shut about conspiracy theories lest you find something that is true and then you will disappear.

The government wouldn't "dissapear" anyone, because that'd just prove to people that whatever the person was saying was true.

[thewake]

I'm saying that if you actually posed a threat and they couldn't do that they just kill you and stage a car wreck.

[Rebelnerd]

yeah, but i doubt a bunch of kids talking about 9/11 online will result in CIA murder.



THIS on the other hand...

[thewake]

Kids talking on the Internet can grow into something bigger.
And if it does, you can bet on politically motivated State murders.

[youvebeenthunderstruck]

While I absolutely DO NOT believe in the 9/11 conspiracy, I do agree with Weswammy. Not everybody's intentions are pure here.

[Rebelnerd]

i know, i just think the FBI would be a little preoccupied with totse right now.

[kennyBOY]

Personally, I believe it was an inside job. I don't think guys in a cave would hijack some planes just for the sake of flying them into the World Trade Centers. It was completely at random. There's been other small "attacks" in the past as reported by the government made by the same group of terrorists. But this group, Al-Qaeda is very vague. Try doing some research. All I can find is that they've staged attacks on other countries. Were they hoping that through 9/11, we would all convert to Islam and ? Unless Al-Qaeda secretly wanted us to invade their own country, there is no motive.

This isn't playground violence. No terrorist organization would make such a large-scale attack on the worlds largest military country unless it was completely necessary.

Do you think even a massive set of organized attacks would make a slight impact on the United States and our policies? I doubt it. What has changed since the attacks? Besides the fact that we've granted the President dictatorial powers, we're establishing permanent military bases in Iraq, more taxes for the war, and we'll probably invade Iran or other countries soon.

Tell me, what good has come to Al-Qaeda?

[thewake]

Actually the President hasn't wanted to raise taxes.
The first President in history to wage war and refuse to pay for it!

[kennyBOY]

Quote:Actually the President hasn't wanted to raise taxes.
The first President in history to wage war and refuse to pay for it!

Uh, we're paying for it. Maybe he didn't want to raise them (I doubt it) but either way, taxes have still gone up a lot. Of course taxes always go up for wars to pay for the costs. But I disagree this is really a war. IMO, I think the president and his men are trying to take control of these oil-bearing countries for their own profit. They knew they needed our support (money) for this war, so they staged an event (9/11) to ensure they would get what they want.

[Ahab]

There are much better, nicer conspiacies than 9/11 that make logical, valid sense. All they have on them is a series of "DOESNT MAKE SENSE" quips because they much prefer skepticism to bothering seeing how the other side is rationalized beyond government officials. And when they do take a look, they resort to either illuminati links or ad hominems.

[fragile-esteem]

Happy Camper Wrote:There were warning signs and they didn't do shit about it.

But I guess before 9/11 there hadn't really been terrorist attacks in the "west". So you can't expect them to realise how big the threat was or what it was capable of,

Hidden stuff:

but I suppose at least there were signs, unlike Hiroshima.