The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

[Michio-kun]

This is one of the best things I've ever read on the internet.

Many of the things mentioned in this article are a large part of the reason why I couldn't handle school anymore. Indeed TAMS was already, basically an "elite community" totally unconcerned with learning and the majority of the students appeared to be disillusioned with their over-inflated egos.

Such a great article...

[SoulRiser]

That was awesome. I liked this quote:

Quote:But, he said—he was a senior at the time—it’s hard to build your soul when everyone around you is trying to sell theirs.

I wanna add it to the articles section, but it has this at the bottom...

Quote:This article is copyrighted by the author. It may not be reproduced without permission of the publisher.

... anyone else find that to not make sense?

It's long anyway so I'll just post a few snippets. Most people won't have the attention span to read the whole thing anyway.

[Whistler]

That is a very ambiguous copyright claim. It almost always specifies whether exclusive reproduction rights apply to both print and internet or one or the other..

[kennyBOY]

Bookmarked. That was a great article!

[dreamer...]

Wow, what an article! I agree with almost everything the author says...like the way he differentiates between "knowledgeable" and "intellectual." It's all so unfortunately true.

This part really hit home:

Quote:Let’s not even talk about the possibility of kids from privileged backgrounds not going to college at all, or delaying matriculation for several years, because however appropriate such choices might sometimes be, our rigid educational mentality places them outside the universe of possibility—the reason so many kids go sleepwalking off to college with no idea what they’re doing there.

Next year I'll be the kid sleepwalking off to college. Not going to college, as the author points out, is simply unthinkable. Sad, but true.

[liq3]

dreamer... Wrote:Next year I'll be the kid sleepwalking off to college. Not going to college, as the author points out, is simply unthinkable. Sad, but true.

Nu. I dropped out of Australia's equivalent to college. It's not unthinkable.

[dreamer...]

liq3 Wrote:Nu. I dropped out of Australia's equivalent to college. It's not unthinkable.

What do you do for a living? (I assume you have a job.)

[liq3]

dreamer... Wrote:

liq3 Wrote:Nu. I dropped out of Australia's equivalent to college. It's not unthinkable.

What do you do for a living? (I assume you have a job.)

Atm, nothing. I've got about a month or two to get a job before I lose the internets >:(

[dreamer...]

So you're living with parents? You must've gone to college (or whatever it's called) really young!

[liq3]

dreamer... Wrote:So you're living with parents? You must've gone to college (or whatever it's called) really young!

I'm 17. I was 17 when I went. It was TAFE (lower then undergradute) but it still would have let me skip year 11 and 12 if I had finished it.

[undergroundrevolutionary]

so basically you have no high school diploma or college education i suggest you try to get back in now while you can or have fun flipping burgers for the next 62 years

[liq3]

undergroundrevolutionary Wrote:so basically you have no high school diploma or college education i suggest you try to get back in now while you can or have fun flipping burgers for the next 62 years

Are you serious?

[undergroundrevolutionary]

well unless you have some ingenious plan to get rich thats probably what youll end up doing

[liq3]

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/0 ... in-my-30s/

[undergroundrevolutionary]

im just saying its a much more reliable option in going to college

[liq3]

undergroundrevolutionary Wrote:im just saying its a much more reliable option in going to college

Yah, if you want to work for someone else the rest of your life.

[undergroundrevolutionary]

no go the route of psychology thats what im doing... You can do your best to help people and you choose when you work where you work and who you work with

[kennyBOY]

Quote:no go the route of psychology thats what im doing... You can do your best to help people and you choose when you work where you work and who you work with

I like how people believe that going to college will grant them some amazing job where they do whatever they want making loads of money. Buddy, maybe 20 yrs ago that was the case, but in today's society, you're not gonna work when you want doing what you want for a long time. Even if you have loads of college degrees, they just aren't worth so much anymore. Perhaps if you're extremely lucky, have a 9.7 GPA, perfect SAT scores and your parents are filthy rich, then maybe, you can do that.

My dad went to school for 6 yrs and got a Master's degree in Math, Accounting or something and that was 30 yrs ago. When he graduated, he had to work at various unskilled jobs for many years to gain experience. When he finally was given a position calculating employee benefits for GM, he worked 70 hrs a week for 10 yrs. Now he works at home, though he still puts in a lot of hrs, he's got a lot more free time and he makes a good salary. This is just one example.

I've heard this misconception from a lot of college-bound students, that their college degree will allow them to work some high paying job doing whatever they want whenever they want. Reality check bro, I don't think so. You go off and do your thing, and I wish you the best. Get your degree and everything else you'll need, good luck, then come talk to me.

I'm not saying going to college is bad. But next time you start to make judgments about someone and whether or not they're going to college, keep what I wrote in mind.

[Puchiko]

This is one of the few things I like about the Czech school system.

Americans in the grade range of 9-12 have only one option: high school. It has variations of course: magnet, private, vocational etc. but all in all, it's still the same thing.

Here, once you graduate 9th grade, you have more freedom. You're free to drop out, but that probably gives you even less job opportunities than an American high school diploma. If you want to continue your schooling, you can pick from a fairly wide range of schools:

• Gymnázium College-prep. Selective. The scope of material is similar to that taught at American high school-you take everything from history to chemistry. Four years. Finishes with a school-leaving exam called "maturita", which you take only in the subjects you want, and which enables you to apply to college. Actually, you have little choice than to go on to college, because you have a very broad and general education-most employers won't accept you.
• Učiliště Non-selective. Most of its students will start working immediately after graduation. Usually focuses on some sort of manual labour or craft. Meant for future plumbers, cooks, waiters, builders, wood carvers, electro technicians (the guys you call when your TV breaks), basically any kind of manual labour which requires some training and skills. Upon completion you get a "výuční list" which is enough to do the aforementioned jobs but no college will accept you, they require a "maturita". Two or three years.
• Střední odborná škola Selective. Focuses on a specific future career. You learn about what you're going to do, most common are those preparing engineerers, teachers, architects, building directors, well anything really. Ends with a "maturita", which enables you to go on to college, but the 4-year training you've received is generally enough to find work in the industry without any further education.[/list:u]
  
  Our school system still sucks, but what's nice is that you can get specialized education before college. Still, all of these schools share a common trait: They're full of bastard authoritarian teachers who're probably abusing their powers. How much you actually learn is also dubious.
  
  But the burger flipping argument is extremely easy to debunk. According to Wikipedia, 33% of the adult workforce in the US has a post-secondary diploma. Therefore, if all without a college degree were flipping burgers, 67% of the American adult workforce would be employed in the fast food industry. We all know that's bull shit.

[SoulRiser]

That's a pretty cool idea for the Czech school system... except for one thing. What about people who don't know what they want to do for a living that early on? I mean, how easy is it to go back and choose another route if you don't like the one you picked the first time?

Quote:But the burger flipping argument is extremely easy to debunk. According to Wikipedia, 33% of the adult workforce in the US has a post-secondary diploma. Therefore, if all without a college degree were flipping burgers, 67% of the American adult workforce would be employed in the fast food industry. We all know that's bull shit.

*adds to quote collection*

[Puchiko]

SoulRiser Wrote:That's a pretty cool idea for the Czech school system... except for one thing. What about people who don't know what they want to do for a living that early on? I mean, how easy is it to go back and choose another route if you don't like the one you picked the first time?

I'm not sure. I know that my mum completed the "gymnázium" because she wasn't quite sure what she wanted to do, and the gymnázium is supposed to provide a general education, and than she enrolled at a Střední odborná škola with people four years younger than her. She now has two secondary school diplomas.

But I'm not sure how it works in general-I guess that if a 40-year-old wanted to enroll at a regular secondary school he'd run into some issues. I know quite a few people who have two secondary schools, or who've dropped out of one and enrolled at another, but all of those I know began their second secondary school almost immediately after leaving the first (whether through graduation, expulsion, or own choice). Furthermore, most gymnáziums and some of the better Střední odborná škola won't take a student who has been kicked out of a different school.

[Will]

I haven't finished that article, but I like what I've read of it. It probably doesn't have so much of an impact for me as it does for other people because I've gotten sort of bored of reading stuff like this.

undergroundrevolutionary Wrote:well unless you have some ingenious plan to get rich thats probably what youll end up doing

This sounds like bullshit that a parent would give me. Why do you need a plan? Why do you need to get rich? Why does it have to be right now?

liq3 Wrote:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/0 ... in-my-30s/

I'd read some of Steve Pavlina's related articles before but not this one. After reading this one, I realized that having no plan and just doing what you want to do is an ingenious plan. Therefore, you do have an ingenious plan to get rich.

[youvebeenthunderstruck]

I think "taking a trade and becoming rich" is a figment in the imagination of school. People are incredibly diverse, and this range can go anywhere from being a banker to knitting sweaters. I'm not saying that these will give you a job, what I'm saying is that school, or the period of industrialization, has created these barriers. I highly doubt that capitalism is what people naturally strive for.