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Feeling compassion toward your enemies...
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Michio-kun Offline
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Post: #1
Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

This really helped me:



The definition of compassion is: wanting others to be free from suffering. So compassion is the definition of the highest scope of motivation. It is said that to generate genuine compassion, one needs to realise that oneself is suffering, that an end to suffering is possible, and that other beings similarly want to be free from suffering.

Someone asked the following question to His Holiness the Dalai Lama:

"How does a person or group of people compassionately and yet straightforwardly confront another person or group of people who have committed crimes of genocide against them?"

His Holiness: "When talking about compassion and compassionately dealing with such situations one must bear in mind what is meant by compassionately dealing with such cases. Being compassionate towards such people or such a person does not mean that you allow the other person to do whatever the other person or group of people wishes to do, inflicting suffering upon you and so on. Rather, compassionately dealing with such a situation has a different meaning.

When a person or group of people deals with such a situation and tries to prevent such crimes there is generally speaking two ways in which you could do that, or one could say, two motivations. One is out of confrontation, out of hatred that confronts such a situation. There is another case in which, although in action it may be of the same force and strength, but the motivation would not be out of hatred and anger but rather out of compassion towards the perpetrators of these crimes.

Realising that if you allow the other person, the perpetrator of the crime, to indulge his or her own negative habits then in the long run the other person or group is going to suffer the consequences of that negative action. Therefore, out of the consideration of the potential suffering for the perpetrator of such crimes, then you confront the situation and apply equally forceful and strong measures.

I think this is quite relevant and important in modern society, especially in a competitive society. When someone genuinely practices compassion, forgiveness and humility then sometimes some people will take advantage of such a situation. Sometimes it is necessary to take a countermeasure, then with that kind of reasoning and compassion, the countermeasure is taken with reasoning and compassion rather than out of negative emotion. That is actually more effective and appropriate. This is important. For example my own case with Tibet in a national struggle against injustice we take action without using negative emotion. It sometimes seems more effective."

From His Holiness the Dalai Lama in Healing Anger: The Power of Patience from a Buddhist Perspective:

"One of the reasons there is a need to adopt a strong countermeasure against someone who harms you is that, if you let it pass, there is a danger of that person becoming habituated to extremely negative actions, which in the long run will cause that person's own downfall and is very destructive for the individual himself or herself. Therefore a strong countermeasure, taken out of compassion or a sense of concern for the other, is necessary. When you are motivated by that realization, then there is a sense of concern as part of your motive for taking that strong measure.

...One of the reasons why there is some ground to feel compassionate toward a perpetrator of crime or an aggressor is that the aggressor, because he or she is perpetrating a crime, is at the causal stage, accumulating the causes and conditions that later lead to undesirable consequences. So, from that point of view, there is enough ground to feel compassionate toward the aggressor."

To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. - Chuang-tzu
The quieter you become, the more you can hear. - Baba Ram Dass
The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass. - Dogen
Great Faith. Great Doubt. Great Effort. - The three qualities necessary for training. - Zen saying
Possessing much knowledge is like having a thousand foot fishing line with a hook, but the fish is always an inch beyond the hook. - Zen saying
12-11-2008 11:22 AM
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Jackass McAwesome Offline
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Post: #2
Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

TL/DR

I can't really feel compassion to bastards that tortured me for a better part of a year, and then attempted to have me thrown in Juvey ALL FOR NOT WANTING TO BE THEIR FWIEND.
12-11-2008 11:53 AM
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liq3 Offline
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Post: #3
Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Stratovarius Wrote:There is another case in which, although in action it may be of the same force and strength, but the motivation would not be out of hatred and anger but rather out of compassion towards the perpetrators of these crimes.
I read this sentence, and pretty much only this sentence. I think I know what it means...

The main reason all crimes are committed is ignorance. Prison doesn't solve this ignorance. Only through compassion and understanding can the ignorance be 'fixed'.

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12-11-2008 12:46 PM
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Michio-kun Offline
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Post: #4
Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Oni-Chiisu Wrote:TL/DR

I can't really feel compassion to bastards that tortured me for a better part of a year, and then attempted to have me thrown in Juvey ALL FOR NOT WANTING TO BE THEIR FWIEND.

I recommend you read the whole thing. Smile

Buddhism is general is really helping me ATM, and so much of it just, fits with me.

Conquer the angry man by love.
Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness.
Conquer the miser with generosity.
Conquer the liar with truth.

To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. - Chuang-tzu
The quieter you become, the more you can hear. - Baba Ram Dass
The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass. - Dogen
Great Faith. Great Doubt. Great Effort. - The three qualities necessary for training. - Zen saying
Possessing much knowledge is like having a thousand foot fishing line with a hook, but the fish is always an inch beyond the hook. - Zen saying
12-11-2008 03:56 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #5
Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Awesome post.

Quote:Realising that if you allow the other person, the perpetrator of the crime, to indulge his or her own negative habits then in the long run the other person or group is going to suffer the consequences of that negative action. Therefore, out of the consideration of the potential suffering for the perpetrator of such crimes, then you confront the situation and apply equally forceful and strong measures.
QFT. Too many people seem to think justice = revenge. That doesn't solve anything. But I don't know how someone would actually go about getting themselves to feel compassion for someone who hurt them in some way...

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12-12-2008 02:30 AM
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Michio-kun Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

SoulRiser Wrote:Awesome post.

Quote:Realising that if you allow the other person, the perpetrator of the crime, to indulge his or her own negative habits then in the long run the other person or group is going to suffer the consequences of that negative action. Therefore, out of the consideration of the potential suffering for the perpetrator of such crimes, then you confront the situation and apply equally forceful and strong measures.
QFT. Too many people seem to think justice = revenge. That doesn't solve anything. But I don't know how someone would actually go about getting themselves to feel compassion for someone who hurt them in some way...

You have realize that your enemies are suffering. The greater the evil act, the greater the suffering that was behind it. By responding in kind, you are hurting yourself by giving up power to them, and you are also hurting more people than just your enemy, because your enemy will go on to hurt even more people. The people who got hurt, will also go on to spread their hate. Love and hate, both propagate itself.

You can apply this concept to even trival things, like the hate that gets passed around in this forum or anywhere else on the Internets. I know we all say, "You're making the forum even worse by saying stupid things." but nobody seems to care about this concept because of the lack of immediate rewards for doing so. We just need patience and also to remember that just because we cannot see the results of our actions, does not mean they do not exist or did not happen.

It was this that made me suddenly realize there was no point in saving face, protecting my ego, bringing down other people, or responding negatively to trolls on the internet, or epic trolls IRL like China or America, lol.

It's easy to say these things which seem like common sense, but labeling it as common sense is the reason why nobody ends up adhering to it, because it isn't grounded in conviction.

3 kinds of faith:
1) Uncritical faith: Faith for no reason (i.e. common sense)
2) Emotional faith: Faith founded on unstable emotion.
3) Conviction: Faith founded on reasoning.

Conquer the angry man by love.
Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness.
Conquer the miser with generosity.
Conquer the liar with truth.

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To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. - Chuang-tzu
The quieter you become, the more you can hear. - Baba Ram Dass
The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass. - Dogen
Great Faith. Great Doubt. Great Effort. - The three qualities necessary for training. - Zen saying
Possessing much knowledge is like having a thousand foot fishing line with a hook, but the fish is always an inch beyond the hook. - Zen saying
12-12-2008 05:30 AM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

I never saw the point of vengence.. Hurting or killing someone in defense is justifiable but murdering in vengence is pointless but revenge is cool.

vengence= killing or crippiling somebody in the name of them doing something horrible to you.

revenge: friend pranked you so you prank him back. Boss short changed you so you throw fish in his car.

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12-12-2008 09:19 AM
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The Apathy Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Heart of Shadows Wrote:I never saw the point of vengence.. Hurting or killing someone in defense is justifiable but murdering in vengence is pointless but revenge is cool.

vengence= killing or crippiling somebody in the name of them doing something horrible to you.

revenge: friend pranked you so you prank him back. Boss short changed you so you throw fish in his car.

This, because with vengence people usually get paranoid and act before the crime is even comitted. For example the US thinks just because "X"country has bombs that gives them the right to bomb "X" country. Using the excuse that they saved more people that way which is BS.

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12-12-2008 09:42 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Yeah. Preemptive revenge=a very uncool paradox.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
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12-12-2008 11:21 AM
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i-am-the-liquor Offline
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Post: #10
Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

i dont feel compassion.

I dont mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am,so thats how it comes out.- bill hicks
12-18-2008 08:18 PM
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The Apathy Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

What do you do if you pity your enemy? or even your friend?

Who am I? That is irrelevant.
What am I here for? That will become apparent.
You can call me Apathy!
12-19-2008 05:50 AM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

What if someone brutally murders every single one of your friends? Do you just let it pass and hope he doesn't have to suffer for it?
12-19-2008 09:03 AM
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The Apathy Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

BobManPerson Wrote:What if someone brutally murders your family? Do you just let it pass and hope he doesn't have to suffer for it?


Family is a stupid concept to begin with. The way society TELLS you whom you have to LOVE is Pure Shit.

I can go out, meet and be friends with whomever I want. why does "blood" mean I have to act differently with people I would have discard ed as poor friends. Let alone fly in just to visit?

Who am I? That is irrelevant.
What am I here for? That will become apparent.
You can call me Apathy!
12-19-2008 11:19 AM
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liq3 Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Something_Spacey Wrote:
BobManPerson Wrote:What if someone brutally murders your family? Do you just let it pass and hope he doesn't have to suffer for it?


Family is a stupid concept to begin with. The way society TELLS you whom you have to LOVE is Pure Shit.

I can go out, meet and be friends with whomever I want. why does "blood" mean I have to act differently with people I would have discard ed as poor friends. Let alone fly in just to visit?
Woo. I agree. I realised a few days ago that nothing really makes family any more special then anyone else. They're just a bunch of people you've known for a long time. And that you can't have sex with, due to mutations.

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12-19-2008 11:28 AM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

ok then
12-19-2008 12:12 PM
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Bless the man of great compassion, for his heart is in the right place.

Wish I had great compassion, though. I'm not agressive, though if I perceive something or someone as a threat, I WILL take any necessary steps so it will never be a threat again.
01-13-2009 10:36 AM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Compassion is fucking stupid. If you don't retalliate when someone hurts you, you're going to be perceived as an easy target, and you will get hurt again.
01-13-2009 11:05 AM
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

BobManPerson Wrote:Compassion is fucking stupid. If you don't retalliate when someone hurts you, you're going to be perceived as an easy target, and you will get hurt again.

Not necessarily. If you're talking about physically being hurt, then maybe, but you're no more of a target than everyone else in the world is. But if you're talking about emotionally, honestly, you can't get hurt unless you allow yourself to be hurt. I even have an example. Back in middle school I used to get bullied all the time, I seriously had NO friends. I never "retaliated". But do I give a shit about what people say about me nowadays? FUCK to the NO. Go ahead, I don't care. So there.
01-13-2009 12:53 PM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

I was talking about physical pain, and partially emotional pain (the sadness you get when someone you care about dies).
01-13-2009 01:29 PM
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

There's a time to retaliate physically, you want to make sure you're prepared, I've gotten in more than a few fights I couldn't win, and so I pity the people who cause me physical pain.

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01-14-2009 09:06 AM
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Re: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

It also depends on what type of "enemies" you have. If you mean opponents or rivals, maybe, but if you mean actual violent enemies, thats different.

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01-15-2009 12:41 PM
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RE: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Ah, forgiveness. The one thing that most people tend to overlook and ignore the most today because people rather become "stronger" by ignoring it. It infuriates me that most people experience bad things in the past and they seek to become the people that hurt them (Bullies, trolls, ect), while claiming to become "stronger" in the process. That shit doesn't show a sign of strength, it pretty much shows that you can easily give up and give in to the abuse. That "strength" they like to gloat and boast is actually a sign of weakness and it's sad that few people realize this yet.

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04-05-2012 07:16 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

"For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

It makes for an easy answer to assume that a person who does wrong necessarily suffers for it, but I don't think that's true. Why it is inconceivable that a person can hurt you and genuinely benefit from it? I think sometimes the damage done really does only go one way, sometimes the right thing to do isn't better for both sides.

It's hard to deal with recognizing some inherent sameness in people, but that nonetheless circumstance can leave you fundamentally (and maybe irreconcilably) opposed, but I think that is reality.

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04-05-2012 01:07 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Vengeance & Revenge & Vendetta for the win. And yes, I would hurt if someone hurts me - in a bad way. Can't see what's wrong with that.
04-05-2012 04:38 PM
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RE: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

Hard to do that with your enemies.
04-23-2012 03:56 PM
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RE: Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

https://www.quora.com/What-does-Keep-you...loser-mean

Quote:We strive to keep friends close in order to enrich our lives. We're also inclined to appraise our interpersonal bonds with consideration for the degree of "closeness" we share with one another. For these reasons, most would instinctively assume that a friend ought to be kept closer than an enemy, and this notion is only strengthened by our natural inclination to move away from unpleasantness towards the pleasant.
This particular idiom is intended to make you think, and it achieves this by creating discord with your expectations and beliefs. At first, the thought of keeping an enemy closer than a friend—or close at all for that matter—sounds preposterous, and this compels you to ponder the idea.

Now, why would you keep an enemy closer than a friend? Generally speaking, knowledge. The closer an enemy is to you, the more intimately you will come to know their capabilities, strengths, weaknesses, tendencies etc. You can use this knowledge to your advantage. A close enemy is also one you're privy to the whereabouts of, so you're much less likely to be caught off-guard.
At another level, an enemy has much—if not more—to teach you about yourself. Superficially, your own capabilities, strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies will emerge more prominently in the presence of an enemy, and this serves as an opportunity to learn and grow.

Even deeper, you can learn from the very animosity and opposition which exists between you and your enemy. We can choose to reflect upon why we are enemies with the person in the first place—does it all boil down to a misunderstanding? Am I prejudiced? Not only can we benefit by having our beliefs and capabilities challenged by opposition, but as we develop our understanding of an enemy, we may experience a shift in our regard for them. We may begin to view an enemy with less antagonism, and perhaps in time even come to know them as a friend.

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04-14-2017 06:52 AM
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Post: #27
Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

This reminds me of Iroh when he was confronted by a robber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8HaQDRZDDk
Mugger: [standing knock-kneed] You. Give me all your money.
Uncle Iroh: What are you doing?
Mugger: I'm mugging you.
Uncle Iroh: With that stance?
(Trips him, takes his knife and tells him a bad stance can get you easily knocked over)
(Teaches him better stance)
Uncle Iroh: To tell you the truth, you do not look like the criminal type.
Mugger: I know. I-I'm just confused
(Iroh comforts him)
----cut to a few moments later----
(Sitting on the ground drinking tea)
Mugger: So you really think I could be a good masseur?
Uncle Iroh: Of course.
Mugger: This is so great. No one has ever believed in me.
Uncle Iroh: While it is always best to believe in one's self, a little help from others can be a great blessing.
______

When Iroh sees something bad, he always tries to understand and see the good in it. He was even kind to a man who tried to rob him, and turned him good within less than a minute.

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" Is it your own destiny? Or is it a destiny someone else has tried to force on you?"
" While it is always best to believe in one’s self, a little help from others can be a great blessing"
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(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 08:34 AM by TheVanishingSnowDove.)
04-14-2017 08:32 AM
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Post: #28
Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

My dad once told me he saw a guy robbing a dude selling ice cream and he straight up told him to stop (he told him how the guy selling ice cream probably had a family to feed, etc), and literally the robber dropped the gun and just ran away.

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04-14-2017 12:38 PM
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Post: #29
Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

I can somewhat relate to this; I want to defeat the Turds(for the lack of a better term; I don't want them in my life, but they're not gonna back down quietly) but i don't want to become a Turd while doing it.

However compassion is going too far. I do feel a detached sense of pity for them, because these are people who mind-fucked themselves and ruined their own lives. It doesn't change the fact that they tried that on me and ruined my childhood, and they are still trying. They haven't given up- it was I who became stronger.

Maybe, if I were that strong from the start, I would've been able to (afford to) feel compassion for these people. But I wasn't, and it didn't matter back then whether I was compassionate or not. I still would have been stepped on by these asshats whenever they felt like it. Hell, even tho I am better off now than I've ever been, if I leave one hole in my defense ( trusting Turdette; leaving my phone unlocked; leaving my cupboard open; letting them take my belongings away, or introducing them to my classmates) they'll sneak in. The one time I left my phone unlocked around Turdette, she immediately opened whats app( a chat app that everyone here uses) and sent the Turd (who I wasn't speaking with) a message, saying i'm sorry or some such bs.

Yeah, no. No compassion for these fuckwads. I know they're suffering, but SO AM I, thanks to them.

I'll just leave this here.

Quote:From my own experiences with a former friend who had the same difficulty absorbing negative input, I can tell you that by framing criticism very, very carefully, with lots of positive input and as little emotion as possible, you can coax someone to accept little slivers of negative feedback. But you have to explain it so gently that they don't understand how serious the situation is, and in a few weeks they're back to their old selves.

You can also train them by addressing each problem in the moment. As soon as they do something wrong, you tell them what they did and give them immediate consequences, like ending the visit. Each time you do it they'll tantrum and spray abuse in all directions, but with repetition they'll learn that doing thing-they-like X causes thing-they-hate Y. Maybe they'll stop doing X. Maybe they'll stop visiting, and they'll tell the rest of the family how controlling and cruel you are. Maybe your mental health will survive the tantrums and abuse and escalating tactics long enough for them to pick one or the other. It's like training a toddler, but without any hope that the toddler will grow out of it.

Don't play chess with pigeons-they'll just knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut about like they won anyway.
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Quote:May the days and months of flowing bitterness be rewarded...
To forget!?

Unforgivable!!
04-14-2017 05:38 PM
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Hansgrohe Offline
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Post: #30
Feeling compassion toward your enemies...

The thing is, a lot of people don't really learn how to properly accept criticism. I think the main issue is that a lot of people get this sense of "I'm right about everything, and I can blame the world for my problems" without realizing that they control their lives much more than they realize. Not completely, of course, but still.

It's that sense of entitlement which is subtly poisonous. I've noticed a change since I realized to get rid of it.

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Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

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04-15-2017 03:08 AM
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 Thanks given by: Rule_BreakerXVIII
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