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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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When faced with non-dumbasses..
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Darthmat Offline
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Posts: 10,661
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Given 41 thank(s) in 35 post(s)
Post: #1
When faced with non-dumbasses..

Anti-anti-school people really look stupid. Smile


[19:55] * Chiki (cgiirc@Rizon-193F298A.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #anti-school
[19:55] * [^_^] gives voice to Chiki
[19:56] * Chiki is now known as Chiqi
[19:56] <Chiqi> HAI.
[19:56] <Darthmat> Hi
[19:56] <Chiqi> i H8 skooll
[19:56] <Chiqi> dey nvr tot me 2 spell
[19:56] <deathontwolegs> ...
[19:56] <Chiqi> so i dropped out at 14
[19:56] <Chiqi> and now
[19:56] <Chiqi> i hav no job
[19:56] <Chiqi> plis god halp mi
[19:56] <deathontwolegs> how about you stop trolling our channel, you fucktard? kthx.
[19:57] <Chiqi> oh noes
[19:57] <Chiqi> such language
[19:57] <Chiqi> how vulgar!
[19:57] <deathontwolegs> hey, if you think we're all immature teenagers, by all means debate the topic, but if you're going to be condescending to all of us you better have some conviction in your belief
[19:58] <Chiqi> School isn't bad as a whole. It is whatever school the person goes to that they have a belief against.
[19:58] <deathontwolegs> what about those who dislike the system as a whole, and not just the school they attend?
[19:58] <Chiqi> The system as a whole doesn't have the exact same in each location.
[19:59] <deathontwolegs> there, you see? we've come miles from "skool didnt tech me hwo 2 spel"
[19:59] <Chiqi> What is so terrible about the system AS A WHOLE?
[19:59] <Darthmat> True, but the concept is bad.
[19:59] <Chiqi> The concept of sitting down and listening to a lesson, stories from the past, how to communicate line to line when we can't show physically?
[20:00] <Darthmat> -Forced- education.
[20:00] <deathontwolegs> i mainly don't like it because it's mandatory, students have virtually no rights, and anyway, you barely get treated as an individual before the age of 18 anyway...
[20:00] <Darthmat> You can't force someone to learn.
[20:00] <Darthmat> If it were optional, it wouldn't be so bad. Schools would be forced to improve.
[20:00] <Darthmat> I love my school, but I am still against the system as a whole.
[20:00] <deathontwolegs> i have many problems with the system as a whole, it depends what we're talking about.
[20:01] <Chiqi> On the forcing someone to learn: How do you think your life would be impacted if you were at home from age 5?
[20:01] <Chiqi> Would you be able to calculate tip at a resturant?
[20:01] <Darthmat> Chiqi: If I was taught properly, then no problem.
[20:01] <deathontwolegs> ...yes?
[20:01] <Chiqi> Really?
[20:01] <Chiqi> Taught by who?
[20:01] <Darthmat> I learn faster with stuff I want to then stuff taught to me in school.
[20:01] <deathontwolegs> you're making the fairly basic assumption that math cannot be learned outside a school, which is erroneous
[20:01] <Chiqi> I didn't say math.
[20:01] <Chiqi> I suggested simple life skills.
[20:01] <Darthmat> Chiqi: There are tutors, and parents. Or any person off the street. Arithmetic = simple.
[20:01] <deathontwolegs> i'm not saying that all schools are evil, but the fact that they treat truants as satan incarnate is a rather frightening concept
[20:02] <Chiqi> So then why is school so bad if you can be homeschooled, or drop out? Why so much negativity?
[20:02] <Darthmat> xD
[20:02] <Darthmat> Now this is no longer a debate.
[20:02] <deathontwolegs> you can drop out only at 16, 18 in some places, and homeschooling is up to the parent, not the student.
[20:02] <deathontwolegs> i'm not saying kids should be all powerful.
[20:02] <deathontwolegs> but some things do need changing in that department.
[20:02] <Chiqi> Of course.
[20:03] <deathontwolegs> kids are ignorant, as are many adults, obviously.
[20:03] <Darthmat> Yeah, that. And the fact you have to be either homeschooled or in a 'normal' school is bad. The entire system should be offered to you, not shoved down your throat.
[20:03] <deathontwolegs> so, just saying.
[20:03] <Chiqi> But all this of "school is bad, if you want, make underground copy-odd-each-other homework rings".
[20:03] <Darthmat> .....
[20:03] <Chiqi> It is not the smartest thing to do
[20:03] <deathontwolegs> well, i can't speak for other people, necessarily.
[20:03] <Darthmat> Not in all cases.
[20:03] <Darthmat> In some, they are good.
[20:03] <Chiqi> to give a 15 year old the choice if they would live to finish their education.
[20:03] <Darthmat> Like, if everyone already knows the subject matter, so they share the load.
[20:04] <Chiqi> How is someone to properly get a career in this day and age with out a degree?
[20:04] <deathontwolegs> now, granted, we have had a few people here that are literally, "i hate skool, my techer sux" (6more)...
[20:04] <Darthmat> They know that.
[20:04] <Darthmat> They might regret it later.
[20:04] <deathontwolegs> but we've also had a lot of legitimate, intelligent people seeing problems with the system
[20:04] <Darthmat> But they should still be allowed to choose.
[20:04] <deathontwolegs> anyway, sorry.
[20:04] <deathontwolegs> it's confusing trying to talk to 2 people at once, i realize.
[20:04] <Chiqi> It is like allowing a 10 year old to choose if they should be allowed to drive or not.
[20:04] <Darthmat> ....
[20:05] <deathontwolegs> and darthmat: don't treat him as a troll.
[20:05] <Darthmat> If a 10 year old *can* drives, he should be allowed to.
[20:05] <Darthmat> deathontwolegs: I am not.
[20:05] <Darthmat> drive*
[20:05] <maxh> well, personally, I feel that if a ten year old can pass a driving test, they should be allowed to drive
[20:05] <Darthmat> But most can't.
[20:05] <Darthmat> But no reason to take it away.
[20:05] <Chiqi> You do realize, that the human brain is not fully developed until age 21, correct?
[20:05] <deathontwolegs> :/
[20:05] * Darthmat cries
[20:05] <Darthmat> People develop at different rates.
[20:06] <maxh> you have proof of this?
[20:06] <Chiqi> In general.
[20:06] <maxh> and don't give me those rat studies
[20:06] <Darthmat> And there are 14 year olds who are lots samrter then people far older then 21.
[20:06] <Chiqi> There are many studies, you can check online, obviously.
[20:06] <maxh> 1. Rats are not humans
[20:06] <Chiqi> There are brain scans.
[20:06] <Chiqi> Who said they were?
[20:06] <maxh> Just because the brain is different does not mean it is not developed
[20:06] <maxh> and it is your job to substantiate your theory, not mine
[20:07] <Darthmat> The argument is irrelvant. Just becuase my brain is not 'fully developed' does not mean I should be shoved into a school.
[20:07] <Chiqi> I'm just saying that there is a significant difference between a 20-year old who goes to school and has completed school, and a difference with one who had dropped out of Algebra I in 9th grade because 'it was too hard, and i hated it."
[20:07] <Darthmat> They are too different people.
[20:08] <Darthmat> The one who goes to school could be a serial rapist for all you know.
[20:08] <maxh> You should know that many people here are completed with mandatory schooling, BTW
[20:08] <Darthmat> You can't judge a person based on thier degree of education.
[20:08] <deathontwolegs> i see it this way: age is a factor, i don't expect a 6 year old to drive or know quantum physics, but there are a lot of smart people out there of that age, and it's stupid to generalize by age like that, ie, for example the drinking age, when many people above the legal age get stupidly drunk and kill themselves anyway, whereas a 15 year old responsible drinker would not, and yet the 15 year old still gets arrested
[20:09] <deathontwolegs> (i know that's not related to school, but yeah.)
[20:09] <Chiqi> No, it is because your brain is not 'fully developed' that you should not be allowed to decide things so severe as your education. If you are not of legal age to manage a bank account, how can you possibly decide your education?
[20:09] <Darthmat> The law does not define morals.
[20:09] <deathontwolegs> it doesn't define intelligence, either.
[20:09] <Darthmat> The law can be wrong.
[20:09] <Chiqi> But it does decide who goes where.
[20:09] <maxh> you're confusing law and reality
[20:09] <Darthmat> And often is.
[20:09] <deathontwolegs> chiqi: we're saying the law is wrong, so please don't cite the law.
[20:10] <deathontwolegs> because that defeats the object.
[20:10] <Darthmat> And I could easily manage a fucking bank account if I was allowed to. Smile
[20:10] <maxh> legally, one cannot make significant choice as to their education until sixteen
[20:10] <Chiqi> Yet you aren't.
[20:10] <deathontwolegs> i realize the law doesn't allow many things, but that doesn't mean that we're incapable of doing it
[20:10] <Chiqi> All I'm trying to put across is that dropping out of school or anything else is odd without a legit reason.
[20:10] <maxh> because the law does not allow it
[20:10] <Darthmat> Oh, bye the way.. circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because
[20:10] <Chiqi> Yes, but you incapable of doing it legally.
[20:10] <deathontwolegs> is oppression of freedom and character a legit reason?
[20:11] <Darthmat> by* :/
[20:11] <Chiqi> And circular logic works because it just does.
[20:11] * fist (~fist@fist.of.doom) has joined #anti-school
[20:11] * [^_^] sets mode +a #anti-school fist
[20:11] * [^_^] gives channel operator status to fist
[20:11] <maxh> fisty!
[20:11] <Darthmat> Hello fist
[20:11] <deathontwolegs> i have some articles for you to read, should you be interested, feel free to agree or disagree with them as much as you want, this is just for reference sake
[20:11] <Chiqi> No education = no job.
[20:11] <Chiqi> It doesn't get any more simple than that.
[20:12] <maxh> school != education
[20:12] <Darthmat> So, Chiqi, if all you are trying to prove is that dropping out of school or anything else is odd without a legit reason, then why are you getting so off topic?
[20:12] <deathontwolegs> http://www.school-survival.net/articles/
[20:12] <Darthmat> And people can get jobs without school.
[20:12] <Darthmat> It's very difficult, but possible.
[20:12] <deathontwolegs> http://www.school-survival.net/articles ... cation.php is a pretty good one
[20:13] <maxh> and yes, IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM, it is difficult to get a decent job without a diploma
[20:13] <ATXTheKiller> http://www.babnetmultimedia.com/ebay/im ... r_main.jpg
[20:13] <Chiqi> I doubt the current system will be changed drastically, for a very long time.
[20:13] <maxh> but your argument sounds like "you can't get a job without a diploma, so you shouldn't be opposed to school"
[20:13] <ATXTheKiller> That is a fucking sexy guitar.
[20:13] <maxh> chiqi: and it won't take less time if we stop talking about it
[20:13] <deathontwolegs> (by the way, chiqi, please don't treat swearing as a sign of low intelligence, because it isn't)
[20:14] <Chiqi> Who said it was a sign of low intelligence?
[20:14] <Darthmat> He was just making sure
[20:14] <deathontwolegs> nobody, i just thought you got that impression
[20:14] <deathontwolegs> my mistake
[20:14] <deathontwolegs> and now i'll shut up for a bit.
[20:14] <Chiqi> ...
[20:15] * Darthmat SLAPS CHIQI.
[20:15] <Darthmat> WITH LOVE. >:
[20:16] <maxh> haha
[20:16] <Chiqi> The young never cease to enforce proven fact.
[20:16] <Darthmat> xD
[20:16] <Darthmat> What fact did I enforce?
[20:18] <Chiqi> Danke for your time.
[20:18] * Chiqi has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
12-16-2008 11:25 AM
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wyldstryke Offline
Revolutionary

Posts: 246
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Given 1 thank(s) in 1 post(s)
Post: #2
Re: When faced with non-dumbasses..

Quote:[20:13] <ATXTheKiller> That is a fucking sexy guitar.
QFT

also... what if you dont want a job? like, id be fuckin happy living in squats. you learn more on the streets then you do in a classroom. it also might help that im a cheap bastard who enjoys doing nothing...(being lazy, whatever). sure money is great and all, but as said in Fight Club: you arent your job, you arent your fancy car, you arent the contents of your bank account.(or something close to that)

Nature created neither servants nor masters. I want neither to rule, or be ruled.
12-16-2008 12:10 PM
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Michio-kun Offline
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Given 28 thank(s) in 24 post(s)
Post: #3
Re: When faced with non-dumbasses..

Quote:[20:13] <Chiqi> I doubt the current system will be changed drastically, for a very long time.

I love this. Whenever you complain about "the system" someone will say, "But that's just how it is, and it won't change." and somehow this is supposed to corroborate their argument that school is good?

What a leap of logic.

To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. - Chuang-tzu
The quieter you become, the more you can hear. - Baba Ram Dass
The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass. - Dogen
Great Faith. Great Doubt. Great Effort. - The three qualities necessary for training. - Zen saying
Possessing much knowledge is like having a thousand foot fishing line with a hook, but the fish is always an inch beyond the hook. - Zen saying
12-16-2008 12:17 PM
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Jonno Offline
Pariah

Posts: 890
Joined: Sep 2007
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Given 4 thank(s) in 4 post(s)
Post: #4
Re: When faced with non-dumbasses..

School is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so etc
12-16-2008 03:19 PM
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Superkamiguru Offline
Resistance Leader

Posts: 202
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Post: #5
RE: When faced with non-dumbasses..

(12-16-2008 03:19 PM)Jonno Wrote:  School is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so because school is good because the government says so etc

Pretty much this.

Hidden stuff:
"CONSENSUAL incest is not wrong. (Abuse victims: being abused by a relative does not make it wrong for others to have consensual incest, any more than rape by a stranger makes all sex wrong. Sex and assault/molestation are two different things.) An aversion became common in humans that aided in population growth as one disease couldn't wipe out the human race. That's not a problem anymore.

Consensual incest is very common. You know people who have been involved, whether you know it or not.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual
incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. Youthful experimentation between close relatives close in age is not uncommon, and there are more people than you'd think out there who are in lifelong healthy, happy relationships with a close relative. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and
marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry.

Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too?

Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning.

Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Let consenting adults love each other the way they want!"-Keith Pullman

01-23-2017 11:06 AM
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