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Question for conservatives
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Question for conservatives

Before you read on, take note: this is NOT meant to start an argument. I just want to ask the more right-leaning members a simple question about their philosophy, so don't take it like a challenge.

My question is this: The conservative demographic tends to be made up of primarily rural and suburban white families who usually gravitate towards traditional approaches to social issues. One of the most effective tactics in the McCain campaign was labelling Obama "elitist," which fits well with this.
Okay. But don't conservatives also support capitalism and free market? Capitalism by definition has an elite upper class, since ideally they're the ones who were hardworking enough to rise up to the top. Barack Obama, for example, was not born into wealth. He worked hard for his education and ended up President. Doesn't a person like that actually show a lot of qualities that conservatives admire?
Conservatives use elitist as an insult, yet fight tooth and nail against any new tax law or regulation that will get in the elite's way. My question is, how does conservatism reconcile this distrust of the elite with support for the system that allows the elite to exist?

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
01-23-2009 12:02 PM
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Swift Offline
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Re: Question for conservatives

By elitist they mean like Democrats are claiming to be the one and only solution to the nation's probelms and the other party is scum, and causing all troubles.

"I heard a joke once. Man goes to doctor says "I'm terribly depressed". Doctor says "I know just what you should do. Poliacci the clown is in town, go see him, you'll be cheered right up." The man bursts into tears. "But Doctor, I am Poliacci." Funny joke. Roll on snare drum. Everyone laugh."

-Rorschach


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01-23-2009 01:04 PM
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.xstrike-anywherex. Offline
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Re: Question for conservatives

I'm a leftist but I'll throw in anyway.

Class elitism and wealth elitism has always belonged to the right and always will. Remember that the Democrats are not on the left universally, simply in America. Democrats are by all means capitalist. Masses of brilliant minds often come from those with less wealth, because some are forced to think more. Many wealthy minds also possess great knowledge, they can use it for society's good or their own greed, their choice. Thinking someone is 'elite' based on wealth is ridiculous. And that notion will always be naturally pro-capitalist.

For the other kind of elitism - the intellectual elitism, I would have to say I endorse it. The kind like not wanting some Bible-literalist near our nuclear codes. Nothing wrong with voting against a congressman if they know nothing about their job. Nothing wrong with not allowing someone to hold power simply because 'they can relate to the folks' with no other qualifications. There's nothing wrong with wanting none but the absolute most intelligent holding the reins of the most powerful country in the world. Do you want Joe the Plumber influencing your country?

Step into my twisted reality

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01-23-2009 01:06 PM
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.xstrike-anywherex. Offline
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Re: Question for conservatives

PresidentSwift Wrote:By elitist they mean like Democrats are claiming to be the one and only solution to the nation's probelms and the other party is scum, and causing all troubles.

Both parties try to make the other party look like scum.

Step into my twisted reality

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01-23-2009 01:07 PM
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Swift Offline
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Re: Question for conservatives

.xstrike-anywherex. Wrote:
PresidentSwift Wrote:By elitist they mean like Democrats are claiming to be the one and only solution to the nation's probelms and the other party is scum, and causing all troubles.

Both parties try to make the other party look like scum.

But the Democratic Party tries harder, at least from what I can see.

"I heard a joke once. Man goes to doctor says "I'm terribly depressed". Doctor says "I know just what you should do. Poliacci the clown is in town, go see him, you'll be cheered right up." The man bursts into tears. "But Doctor, I am Poliacci." Funny joke. Roll on snare drum. Everyone laugh."

-Rorschach


[Image: BANANAMAN.gif]
01-23-2009 01:57 PM
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.xstrike-anywherex. Offline
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Re: Question for conservatives

I want to point out something in your sig "libertarian socialism" is not an oxymoron. The word "libertarianism" is different than American Libertarianism, much like the word democratic is different than the Democratic Party. Libertarianism by definition simply means the belief in liberty.

More specifically you can have

libertarian socialism
authoritarian socialism
libertarian capitalism
authoritarian capitalism

Do you get it?

And no, the Democratic party doesn't try harder. If anything they aren't as bad because they don't have zealous religion to sell and they don't favor selling fear of terrorism either.

Step into my twisted reality

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01-23-2009 03:02 PM
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Michio-kun Offline
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Re: Question for conservatives

Quote:Capitalism by definition has an elite upper class, since ideally they're the ones who were hardworking enough to rise up to the top. Barack Obama, for example, was not born into wealth. He worked hard for his education and ended up President. Doesn't a person like that actually show a lot of qualities that conservatives admire?

I think this is where the misunderstanding is. You're unlikely to become wealthy unless you start off wealthy. Also, the richest people in America don't work... They don't produce anything. The richest people are shareholders.

I think the average person who makes $15 per hour produces around $110 of goods per hour. Where does that money go? Well the shareholders get it mostly.

I hear a lot of platitudes from the far-right (I've had to listen to the Fox network for years because of my dad) about hard working Americans and climbing to the top. The truth about capitalism is that it is unfair, and if left unchecked, capitalism produces a smaller and smaller elite class that constantly gets richer and richer while everyone else gets exploited. This can be backed up by simply looking at the history of capitalism particularly in the late 19th century. There were guys like J.P. Morgan and Rockefeller that literally sat on dozens of boards of directors for corporations. Massive conglomerates were forming.

What eventually happens in capitalism is that a single corporation will own ... everything.

Also, America is not purely capitalist. Obviously we have many socialist institutions like social security and labor unions. I would even place public schools and public utilities under the list of socialist institutions. The reason is because when capitalism was at its best in the late 19th century, there were instances where a corporation would own entire towns and the corporation would pay its workers in special local currency that could only be redeemed at shops that the corporation owned.

To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. - Chuang-tzu
The quieter you become, the more you can hear. - Baba Ram Dass
The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass. - Dogen
Great Faith. Great Doubt. Great Effort. - The three qualities necessary for training. - Zen saying
Possessing much knowledge is like having a thousand foot fishing line with a hook, but the fish is always an inch beyond the hook. - Zen saying
01-24-2009 01:40 AM
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arthasmenethil Offline
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Re: Question for conservatives

PresidentSwift Wrote:
.xstrike-anywherex. Wrote:
PresidentSwift Wrote:By elitist they mean like Democrats are claiming to be the one and only solution to the nation's probelms and the other party is scum, and causing all troubles.

Both parties try to make the other party look like scum.

But the Democratic Party tries harder, at least from what I can see.

From what I've seen it's the other way around. Go on almost any forum and find something about liberalism or Obama. There will be more rightists doing nothing but trashing the left, but not as many leftists trashing the right. They're both there(and equally as stupid).

Topix.com is one I go to a lot, and there's a poster there named Garand. Read his posts to see what I mean. His posts are nothing more than insults aimed at anyone who disagrees with him. Then this same person labels everyone who disagrees with him close-minded. He reminds me a Archie Bunker. Once he even said liberals are guilty of treason and should be hanged.

Hidden stuff:
The game...you lost! HAHAHAHA!!!!
01-24-2009 02:49 AM
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John Tuttle Offline
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Re: Question for conservatives

Both sides trash the shit out of each other. Bokay?

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01-24-2009 11:54 AM
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Tasty Waffles Offline
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Post: #10
Re: Question for conservatives

.xstrike-anywherex. Wrote:
PresidentSwift Wrote:By elitist they mean like Democrats are claiming to be the one and only solution to the nation's probelms and the other party is scum, and causing all troubles.

Both parties try to make the other party look like scum.
They both suck
01-24-2009 11:55 AM
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