Constructive criticism vs verbal abuse

[SoulRiser]

If you disagree with something someone did or said, try to tell them in a constructive way.

Example:
1) You're a moron
2) I disagree because ....

1) is verbal abuse, 2) is using constructive criticism, as long as you explain your reasoning behind what you're saying. If you don't explain your reasons then it isn't really all that constructive, but even if you just say "that was stupid" instead of "you are stupid", at least it's still an improvement and isn't insulting the person's character.

If you're really raging and angry about what the person just said, don't reply just yet. Get up, go outside, jump around, get a punching bag, do some pushups, whatever. But calm down before you reply.

This isn't undermining free speech in any way. You can still express your opinion, you just have to try to do it in a way that doesn't insult anyone.

Even if you really totally honestly believe the person is completely stupid, be specific and tell them what they're doing wrong instead of writing them off as a total moron. If you've told them what they've done wrong loads of times before and they keep on refusing to listen, that's no excuse to give up and start calling them an idiot. Rather just don't say anything. Let them be an idiot. Ignore them.

None of this applies in the Frag Arena though, you can diss people all you want in there.. But keep that stuff out of other forums.

For more info on emotional abuse and all manner of related things, check out EQI.org

[LOON_ATTIC]

YOU'RE A MORON

[SoulRiser]

[Blobthe15]

FAKE AND GAY

[LOON_ATTIC]

I personally think most of the "verbal abuse" that went on did have enough explanation although it was a bit too harsh IMO, and it looks like you've "matured Soul, I was just kidding

Damn that was hard on an iPod I couldve written an essay

[HeartofShadows]

So I take it everybody hasn't learned to start being less of a bunch of assholes(I'm trying thanks to not having SS for over a month).

[SoulRiser]

I have confidence that we will all get better at it, even if it takes some time.

I will admit I did actually lol at your "YOU'RE A MORON" post though.

[Aya]

FTR one of the posts I made ('cause let's face it - we all know why this GA was made) was constructive criticism and you sent it to Frag anyway. So fuck it. As long as the Frag Arena exists, and certain users on this site are seen as immune criticism, I'm going to say what I damn well please.

[SoulRiser]

I've actually been planning on writing this since long before that, but that just reminded me to get around to doing it.

Which post are you referring to?

You can say what you damn well please, but keep the non-constructive stuff in the Frag Arena to save me the trouble of moving it.

[Endeavourer]

(09-15-2011 10:21 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  I have confidence that we will all get better at it, even if it takes some time.

I will admit I did actually lol at your "YOU'RE A MORON" post though.

l have 0 confidence that you will all get better at it. When l see how long some members have been in this forum, and then see how they post, l'm surprised you're not shameful. Your members love insulting each other and your goal of being taken seriously in school reforming is laughable. l highly doubt you will achieve anything, but l will stay for the lols.

[SaintVicious]

Soul has already had her yearly site visit.

[Stadium]

fuck you eat an antpile

[fish20]

(05-13-2012 07:29 AM)Endeavourer Wrote:  

(09-15-2011 10:21 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  I have confidence that we will all get better at it, even if it takes some time.

I will admit I did actually lol at your "YOU'RE A MORON" post though.

l have 0 confidence that you will all get better at it. When l see how long some members have been in this forum, and then see how they post, l'm surprised you're not shameful. Your members love insulting each other and your goal of being taken seriously in school reforming is laughable. l highly doubt you will achieve anything, but l will stay for the lols.

This forum has never been about school reform. School-Survival.net is not the place for it. The site is called School-Survival, not School-Reform. There is no forum even on this site that is for that purpose.

[Mælstrom]

What Fish said. This is more of a forum for people to let off steam in regards to the experiences they've had in school. If you're looking for a movement that has a small but possible chance of changing educational paradigms around the world, than check out the Educational Freedom project than Absentinsomniac and a few other members have been working on.

[Endeavourer]

(05-13-2012 08:53 AM)Maelstrom Wrote:  What Fish said. This is more of a forum for people to let off steam in regards to the experiences they've had in school. If you're looking for a movement that has a small but possible chance of changing educational paradigms around the world, than check out the Educational Freedom project than Absentinsomniac and a few other members have been working on.

Have you read the site's MISSION STATEMENT yet? Because even if you did, you don't seem to understand what is on it.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:Your members love insulting each other

Most of them are just joking. Only a few are serious. I don't care at all about the joking, but the serious stuff is supposed to be kept in the Frag Arena.

Quote:and your goal of being taken seriously in school reforming is laughable.

We never had a goal like that.

[SoulRiser]

Also, I just edited the mission statement. EFO spawned from discussions on here, so it's not entirely inaccurate, but still, that sort of thing is now happening on their site.

[Endeavourer]

(05-13-2012 10:01 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Also, I just edited the mission statement. EFO spawned from discussions on here, so it's not entirely inaccurate, but still, that sort of thing is now happening on their site.

So basically now your mission statement is to just conform to authority and not fight it because that's obviously going to help people feel better. Maybe a little better, like the smallest amount. But if that's simply your goal, that's like my mom who sent me to a psychologist because l hated school and all the psychologist said was "deal with it, everyone has to go through it".

Your mission statement is so stupid now, you might as well be blatant and tell the truth and say, "The purpose of the site is to convince you that school is great even when we know it isn't. Simply because being politically correct is more important than morals."

Also, take out the part that says "The secondary purpose of the forums is to plan and do things to improve the school systems, and/or educate people about alternatives.". That is pure bullshit if what you said at the first part is true.

you don't plan to achieve anything on the site, just plan to tell people bullshit stories about how it "gets better". l swear, you're a really good scam artist. Good job making a ton of money pretending to achieve something when you're achieving NOTHING at all.

[SaintVicious]

This nigger has to be like 13.

[Thought Criminal]

(05-13-2012 10:20 AM)Endeavourer Wrote:  

(05-13-2012 10:01 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Also, I just edited the mission statement. EFO spawned from discussions on here, so it's not entirely inaccurate, but still, that sort of thing is now happening on their site.

So basically now your mission statement is to just conform to authority and not fight it because that's obviously going to help people feel better. Maybe a little better, like the smallest amount. But if that's simply your goal, that's like my mom who sent me to a psychologist because l hated school and all the psychologist said was "deal with it, everyone has to go through it".

Your mission statement is so stupid now, you might as well be blatant and tell the truth and say, "The purpose of the site is to convince you that school is great even when we know it isn't. Simply because being politically correct is more important than morals."

Also, take out the part that says "The secondary purpose of the forums is to plan and do things to improve the school systems, and/or educate people about alternatives.". That is pure bullshit if what you said at the first part is true.

you don't plan to achieve anything on the site, just plan to tell people bullshit stories about how it "gets better". l swear, you're a really good scam artist. Good job making a ton of money pretending to achieve something when you're achieving NOTHING at all.

Faggot

[LOON_ATTIC]

(05-13-2012 10:20 AM)Endeavourer Wrote:  

(05-13-2012 10:01 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Also, I just edited the mission statement. EFO spawned from discussions on here, so it's not entirely inaccurate, but still, that sort of thing is now happening on their site.

So basically now your mission statement is to just conform to authority and not fight it because that's obviously going to help people feel better. Maybe a little better, like the smallest amount. But if that's simply your goal, that's like my mom who sent me to a psychologist because l hated school and all the psychologist said was "deal with it, everyone has to go through it".

Your mission statement is so stupid now, you might as well be blatant and tell the truth and say, "The purpose of the site is to convince you that school is great even when we know it isn't. Simply because being politically correct is more important than morals."

Also, take out the part that says "The secondary purpose of the forums is to plan and do things to improve the school systems, and/or educate people about alternatives.". That is pure bullshit if what you said at the first part is true.

you don't plan to achieve anything on the site, just plan to tell people bullshit stories about how it "gets better". l swear, you're a really good scam artist. Good job making a ton of money pretending to achieve something when you're achieving NOTHING at all.

too long, didn't read

[fish20]

Please tell me all about the forum you've been at for 3 days.

[SoulRiser]

Dude... go get a punching bag, hit it for a while, go for a run outside, and then come back before posting. You have a lot of rage you should get out of your system.

[Thought Criminal]

I've noticed a big surge in Soulriser pushing goals etc.. since this fag has shown up.
Does SS bother you sometimes Soul?

[SoulRiser]

Only some people on the forums... sometimes.

[xcriteria]

This is an important topic... and this thread is currently in SoulRiser's signature.

However, reading through the replies here is incredibly disappointing.

I see the need for such a more substantive discussion on this topic... including these ideas that verbally abusing people is what "free speech" is all about.

One resource to consider here is the book Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High. In reality, it's quite a challenge to get anyone to read even some of a non-fiction book about how to have conversations, metacognition, and how people interpret each other and frame situations. Spawning a discussion of these topics is even harder.

But, this can be one step to transforming both "verbal abuse" (a.k.a. "lashing out" or "violence") and the avoidance of conversation into productive, meaningful discussions that might actually play a substantive role in people's lives.

(Unlike much of our experience of school, and unlike endless streams of negativity and despair that have filled many pages of the half a million posts on these forums over the past decade.)

I've seen so many signs of life over the past year, that I think this thread is worth bumping and building upon. One of the things some of us have discussed is writing a history of SS. What will the next chapters be in that history? What words will be written and spoken... what scenes will play out, and what stories will be told?

Time will tell... but maybe part of it can be an improvement upon the darkness that the above exchanges imply to people who come across this site, perhaps looking to make sense of a confusing world. Will they find beacons of light, or a pit of despair?

(And, is life nothing but a pit of despair... or might those beacons of light actually lead somewhere?)

[SoulRiser]

Your last line rhymes

Well, most of the people replying on this thread are not here anymore. So maybe we can get a fresh discussion going with the (far nicer) people who are currently here?

[Ky]

(09-15-2011 08:55 AM)Lunatic Wrote:  YOU'RE A MORON

(Just kidding.)

[brainiac3397]

This is an example of a pre-brainiac era. Enjoy the clay tablets and donkey-powered mills.

[James Comey]

Indeed. The dark days....