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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

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I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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Leave Summer Alone
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Aya Offline
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Post: #1
Leave Summer Alone

Arne Duncan, education secretary wants to extend the school year to compete with with countries like India and China who out perform us every year academically.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/27/ ... index.html

First off, why are we even comparing ourselves to these countries? Sure, our education system sucks, but thiers is actually worse.

90% of China's rural students drop out after the 9th grade. China's rural population constitutes 60% of the countries total. If you do the math, that comes to a 54% drop out rate, right off the bat, without even factoring in the urban population. Thats twice the US rate.

http://www.ruralchina.org/site/index.ph ... Itemid=295

And India's education system is so bad that 70% of thier 5th graders can't subtract.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/world ... .html?_r=1

The reason these countries outperform us every year has nothing to do with thier summer vacations, it has to do with the fact that only thier best and brightest students are taking these academic assessments.
03-01-2009 02:32 AM
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Thought Crimnal Offline
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Post: #2
Re: Leave Summer Alone

Finally someone has the guts to point this out.
I fucking hate how they just look at a piece of paper and are like

Political faggot: "OH NOES! THE CHINAFAGS ARE DOING BETTER THAN US!!!!"
Political faggot #2:"Ohai I have a soulution let's eliminate summer vacation"
Me: "how about FUCK YOU"

Prolonging school would just make it worse. Kids would still not give a shit and not work plus you pissed them of by trapping them in this shithole for even longer.
Also you have to pay more to run the school longer. There is staff, food, supplies, electricity, water, janators, maintnce multiplied by the number of schools which in my county alone is over 100.
Another problem would be again maintnece all that time you used to use over the summer to do things like fix the AC, paint the school, over haul classrooms is gone leaving the school in disrepair which then makes it cost more when you actually do get around. To fixing things.

This Idea is fucking stupid. The guy who came up with this should be shot



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03-01-2009 03:16 AM
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Mono Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

The differences between Chinese and American educational systems are too great to be compared.

The culture in China so different, and that alone can result in variations in academical success.

The Chinese have a huge test called the Gaokao, which is described as the "most pressure packed exam in the world" and it is taken very seriously. It is the only major academic exam they have, so their future is fairly dependent on it.

I think drop out rates aren't a good measure of how well students are performing, China does have a much larger population and China's leaving age is only 15 in comparison to America's 16-18.

To say that the Chinese perform better because of longer school years is over simplifying the issue. It's possible that a longer school year helps to boost grades, but it doesn't guarantee it.
03-01-2009 03:19 AM
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Sunbourn Offline
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Post: #4
Re: Leave Summer Alone

This guy is a moron. If anything this'll just make kids not give a shit even more and rebel. I almost want this to pass since it'll make a lot of kids wake up and rebel.

Who am I? Who are YOU?
03-01-2009 03:25 AM
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Fire Elf Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

India is a third world country, and China is only kept out of a similar status by it's cheap, lead-covered-plastic industry. Is this really the countries we should take cues from?

If you answered no, you're oficially smarter then the school administration.

If you answered yes, have fun become a third world country yourself.

If you didn't answer, we need a revolution.

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03-01-2009 04:06 AM
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Mono Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

Fire Elf Wrote:India is a third world country, and China is only kept out of a similar status by it's cheap, lead-covered-plastic industry. Is this really the countries we should take cues from?.

A countries economic status doesn't necessarily reflect how effective it's educational system is.

For example, Cuba which is a third world country has a higher education index than America.
03-01-2009 04:15 AM
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Fire Elf Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

Mono Wrote:
Fire Elf Wrote:India is a third world country, and China is only kept out of a similar status by it's cheap, lead-covered-plastic industry. Is this really the countries we should take cues from?.

A countries economic status doesn't necessarily reflect how effective it's educational system is.

For example, Cuba which is a third world country has a higher education index than America.
"Third world country": is not an economic status it's a way of life. Also, just because a countries education system is "better then America's" does not mean it's good. Quite on the contrary, american schools are so bad, it's not difficult for another country to do better. I'm pretty sure schools in Cuba, Mexico, Yugoslavia, etc, are also pretty bad. I'm just making up numbers here, but if we place 126th place... are we really going to reach the top by trying to be like the country in 125th or
124th place?

And who's index is this? What are their criteria? I know what mine are, the only good school is where students actually have rights. So there might not be any in this world.

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03-01-2009 04:50 AM
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Mono Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

Fire Elf Wrote:"Third world country": is not an economic status it's a way of life.

The UN criteria for third world countries are:-

1. a low-income estimate of the gross national income (GNI) per capita.

2. their weak human assets and

3. their high degree of economic vulnerability.

When you refered to China being "kept out of similar status by it's cheap, lead-covered-plastic industry." I believed that you were using the economy to judge if a country was in the third world.

I simply wanted to point out that Third world doesn't mean poor education.

It's hard to determine what makes an educational system effective. The education index is a ratio created from adult literacy rates and the countries gross enrollement ratio, in my mind it is the best measure of effectiveness that we have (It's not perfect, though!).

When you say you believe the only good schools are ones where the students have rights, it leads me to believe that you're problem is with the individual schools themselves rather than the countries education system which is what this discussion is about.

Sorry if you disagree with what I'm saying, I just prefer to take a scientific and logical view on life. I don't like agreeing with something without proof.
03-01-2009 05:16 AM
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Fire Elf Offline
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Post: #9
Re: Leave Summer Alone

Mono Wrote:
Fire Elf Wrote:"Third world country": is not an economic status it's a way of life.

The UN criteria for third world countries are:-

1. a low-income estimate of the gross national income (GNI) per capita.

2. their weak human assets and

3. their high degree of economic vulnerability.

When you refered to China being "kept out of similar status by it's cheap, lead-covered-plastic industry." I believed that you were using the economy to judge if a country was in the third world.

I simply wanted to point out that Third world doesn't mean poor education.

It's hard to determine what makes an educational system effective. The education index is a ratio created from adult literacy rates and the countries gross enrollement ratio, in my mind it is the best measure of effectiveness that we have (It's not perfect, though!).

When you say you believe the only good schools are ones where the students have rights, it leads me to believe that you're problem is with the individual schools themselves rather than the countries education system which is what this discussion is about.

Sorry if you disagree with what I'm saying, I just prefer to take a scientific and logical view on life. I don't like agreeing with something without proof.
I thought I desribed in my last post that I'm not interested in what the UN has to say. They'll have their criteria, i'll have mine. And I do not believe "effective" is the right word. A school is not a factory, or at least it shouldn't be. If you actually support the processing of people to become what the state wants them to be, I suggest you get the fuck off our forum, akdonn.

And, no, my problem is not with the school, it's with the school system. I have gone to many different schools, and the situation was always the same. Pick any other school in the world, the situation is the same. Even schools that have problems with teaching about simple concepts do not have nearly as much trouble opressing the student population. Just look at TB. There shouldn't be a public school system, so shut the hell up about your "effectivity" bullshit.

BTW, you didn't start the thread, so who are you to tell me what the thread is about, and what I should and shoould not talk about.

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03-01-2009 07:11 AM
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Thought Crimnal Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

Fire Elf Wrote:I thought I desribed in my last post that I'm not interested in what the UN has to say. They'll have their criteria, i'll have mine. And I do not believe "effective" is the right word. A school is not a factory, or at least it shouldn't be. If you actually support the processing of people to become what the state wants them to be, I suggest you get the fuck off our forum, akdonn.

And, no, my problem is not with the school, it's with the school system. I have gone to many different schools, and the situation was always the same. Pick any other school in the world, the situation is the same. Even schools that have problems with teaching about simple concepts do not have nearly as much trouble opressing the student population. Just look at TB. There shouldn't be a public school system, so shut the hell up about your "effectivity" bullshit.

BTW, you didn't start the thread, so who are you to tell me what the thread is about, and what I should and shoould not talk about.
amen fire elf
all the schools do is force you to attend so they can pump you full of "needed" (AKA useless) information that you need to succeed in life. behind this they also mold you in to another perfect droning american faggot who wants to follow the american dream (which in todays case is paying taxes so rich people don't have to)
you grow up work your ass off all your life. live in a shit for nothing middle class home in the ghettos of chicago pay your taxes and die.

i believe this is what fire elf is trying to say.

I'm all for learning but I'm against school



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03-01-2009 07:25 AM
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Mono Offline
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Post: #11
Re: Leave Summer Alone

Fire Elf Wrote:I thought I desribed in my last post that I'm not interested in what the UN has to say. They'll have their criteria, i'll have mine. And I do not believe "effective" is the right word. A school is not a factory, or at least it shouldn't be. If you actually support the processing of people to become what the state wants them to be, I suggest you get the fuck off our forum, akdonn.

And, no, my problem is not with the school, it's with the school system. I have gone to many different schools, and the situation was always the same. Pick any other school in the world, the situation is the same. Even schools that have problems with teaching about simple concepts do not have nearly as much trouble opressing the student population. Just look at TB. There shouldn't be a public school system, so shut the hell up about your "effectivity" bullshit.

BTW, you didn't start the thread, so who are you to tell me what the thread is about, and what I should and shoould not talk about.

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion on the education systems. I personally believe that it is a necessary evil that could do with improvement. Please don't tell me to shut the hell up or get the fuck of the forum, (akdonn?).

You didn't say that you didn't care what the UN had to say in you last post. I'm not saying that school should be "like a factory" I'm saying that if someone is being made to go, they should be learning as much as possible.

Extending the school year into the Summer isn't going to increase the amount a student is learning if they're learning very little to begin with, and making comparisons with countries like China and India doesn't make a valid argument.
03-01-2009 07:37 AM
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classclown Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

thats stupid cause its a proven fact that countries with less time in school do better. like the less homework a school gives out the better grades the students get. plus kids that skip school alot but still wanna pass usally got A's atleast the ones i know.

life is just blah blah blah. we hope for blah, and sometimes we find it. but mostly its blah. and waiting for blah. and hoping you were right about the blahs you made. and when you think you just got the whole blah damn thing figured out, and your surrounded by the ones you blah. death shows up and blah blah blah.
-weeds-

Death may be the greatest of all human blessings. -socrates-

Schooling us to prepare us for the career in need
Not caring about our interests and dreams to heed
03-01-2009 12:12 PM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

I hope this happens. Seriously. Maybe people will finally rebel if it happens.
03-01-2009 01:33 PM
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Post: #14
Re: Leave Summer Alone

I hope I'm not bothering anybody for writing my opinion on this, since I'm not from the US, but shitty countries (like mine) have a bad habit in copying everything the US does.

This is, once again, proof that people can't be bothered to think on a deeper level. It's just like the bodyguard and suicide thing. The system and the way it works can't be changed just by polishing the surface, if what lies beneath is shit. Prolonging the time spent in school does not mean that they will all magically start to adore school and start doing extra homework; on the contrary, it will only cause more hatred for learning. To which, as if you didn't expect this, adults will reply that all school children are snotty brats who hate education and they will become beggars and slit throats for money so that they can buy drugs. Both adults and children will be pissed off at each other, and the education they strive for (mah bois) will never be achieved.

And, to be perfectly honest, I don't see the purpose in this competition with other countries to see who is more educated. You're educated - fine. You're not educated - it's your life, and no one can barge in and tell you that you have to do things just so that your country ranks on a higher level. It reminds me of children playing counter-strike and laughing at others for not killing as many terrorists as them :/

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

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Disaster lurks within good fortune;
Who can say how things will end?
Perhaps there is no end.
03-01-2009 07:05 PM
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Fire Elf Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

Mono Wrote:Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion on the education systems. I personally believe that it is a necessary evil that could do with improvement. Please don't tell me to shut the hell up or get the fuck of the forum, (akdonn?).

You didn't say that you didn't care what the UN had to say in you last post. I'm not saying that school should be "like a factory" I'm saying that if someone is being made to go, they should be learning as much as possible.
We are also entitled to tell people like you to get the hell out. And since I disagree with many your opinions, I will use this right to it's full advantage. I'll admit, it's much easier then writing a whole novel about why you're wrong. Since you don't know what akdonn is, we'll asume you're just some new guy. So, a little introduction, every-one here will use tactics like this. It's the internet for fuck's sake.

I'm pretty sure I at least implied that UN indexes mean nothing to me. My idea of a good school is one where there are actual student rights and such. I could tell this isn't what the UN used, so I don't care what rankings they give. Just like you are implying support for factory schooling, by using words such as "effective"

And I can not begin to list all the things wrong with the idea of "learn as much as possible". If some-one wants to "learn as much as possible" they can knock themselves out as much as they want. But the rest of us should not be forced to. We're already forced to go to a run-down, prison-like building where the A/C only works during the winter for 7 hours a day. Why should more stuff be forced on us? So as to stuff us with "as much as possible" as if we were some container? Just so the country can brag about having a high spot on a list?

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03-01-2009 08:05 PM
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monkey Away
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Post: #16
Re: Leave Summer Alone

lol, my school district cant make the year longer, were thinking of making it shorter. Were like 6 million dollars in debt. and the shop program budget is 600 dollars this semester. (with 5 classes) The shop teacher said there gonna have a meeting, And will likely take his remaining 200 dollars away.

So lol, It cant effect me. Cus' were poor.

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03-03-2009 02:55 PM
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classclown Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

my distrect doesnt ever talk about making the school year longer. Smile

life is just blah blah blah. we hope for blah, and sometimes we find it. but mostly its blah. and waiting for blah. and hoping you were right about the blahs you made. and when you think you just got the whole blah damn thing figured out, and your surrounded by the ones you blah. death shows up and blah blah blah.
-weeds-

Death may be the greatest of all human blessings. -socrates-

Schooling us to prepare us for the career in need
Not caring about our interests and dreams to heed
03-03-2009 03:42 PM
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Trar Away
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

Comparing the USA's schools with China's schools and India's schools is (in the immortal words of Ren and Stimpy) STUUUUPID. The differences between the three countries ALONE should be evidence that they're totally different from each other.


Oh, and if the school year is lengthened, i'm killing myself.
03-03-2009 10:11 PM
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

This guy is a fucking joke.

If this comes into play , people may finally open their eyes and wake up and finally say "what the fuck is this shit" and rebel.

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03-04-2009 07:51 AM
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

BobManPerson Wrote:I hope this happens. Seriously. Maybe people will finally rebel if it happens.

This.

"I heard a joke once. Man goes to doctor says "I'm terribly depressed". Doctor says "I know just what you should do. Poliacci the clown is in town, go see him, you'll be cheered right up." The man bursts into tears. "But Doctor, I am Poliacci." Funny joke. Roll on snare drum. Everyone laugh."

-Rorschach


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03-04-2009 10:42 AM
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Trar Away
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

Swift McGee Wrote:
BobManPerson Wrote:I hope this happens. Seriously. Maybe people will finally rebel if it happens.

This.
If it means a revolution, I will suffer as long as it takes.
03-09-2009 10:49 AM
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Thought Crimnal Offline
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Re: Leave Summer Alone

matty555 Wrote:This guy is a fucking joke.

If this comes into play , people may finally open their eyes and wake up and finally say "what the fuck is this shit" and rebel.
God that would be fucking win.



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03-09-2009 11:13 AM
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The man Offline
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RE: Leave Summer Alone

(03-09-2009 11:13 AM)Thought Crimnal Wrote:  
matty555 Wrote:This guy is a fucking joke.

If this comes into play , people may finally open their eyes and wake up and finally say "what the fuck is this shit" and rebel.
God that would be fucking win.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
04-17-2017 02:45 AM
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James Comey Away
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Post: #24
Leave Summer Alone

Unfortunately we've been waiting more than a century for a rebellion. *sigh*

RIP GWEDIN
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04-17-2017 04:51 AM
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Post: #25
Leave Summer Alone

Why would they speak of extending the school year, when there are countries like Slovenia (and other places in Europe), with less hours, more recess, more freedom, but better performing students?

Damn it America. e-e

"I’M BEGGING YOU, PRINCE ZUKO! It’s time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"
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04-17-2017 05:11 AM
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Post: #26
Leave Summer Alone

Because of cultural attitudes.

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04-17-2017 06:17 AM
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