Let's talk about abortion

[Rebelnerd]

Liquid Wrote:Plus, abortion babies are born alive ALL THE TIME, just normally they are set on metal shelves until they die. Of course they are just "sacks of cells," with arms and legs, pumping hearts, crying in pain just like you or I would if someone had just injected us with a syringe full of a burning poison, but then again, aren't you and I just sacks of cells too.

What in the fuck are you talking about?

[returnal]

You know guys, you're lucky that Juna from NYRA hasn't joined SS and seen this thread yet.

I mean...

Quote:I fucking despise Roebots. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. They dehumanize the unborn and try to take away the most fundamental right from the weakest and most defenseless human beings, AND THEN TRY TO MAKE ME OUT TO BE THE EVIL GUY! They're like fucking Hitlers. Oh, sorry, you got raped (or, given the ambiguity in most laws, raped someone)? Oh, well that sucks for you.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN KILL THE MOTHERFUCKING BABY AND CERTAINLY I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT.

Also, that brings me to another point. If you choose to fuck your cousin, I'm not paying for that homicide either.

Don't even get me started on the "just kill the disabled babies" people. What's worse, THEY DO IT UNDER GUISE OF "COMPASSION"! Are you shitting me? You want to say limbless babies should be chemically burned, or have their heads smashed brains sucked out, or cut into itty-bitty pieces, AND THEN CLAIM THE FUCKING MORAL HIGH GROUND????????

You want to call me "anti-choice"? Well, shitforbrains, I guess I'll take it then. Because so are you.

What, you're pro-choice?

WELL THEN LET ME "CHOOSE" TO RAM THIS FORK INTO YOUR HEAD LIKE I SO GODDAMN WANT TO DO RIGHT NOW!!!!!!

[Liquid]

Rebelnerd Wrote:

Liquid Wrote:Plus, abortion babies are born alive ALL THE TIME, just normally they are set on metal shelves until they die. Of course they are just "sacks of cells," with arms and legs, pumping hearts, crying in pain just like you or I would if someone had just injected us with a syringe full of a burning poison, but then again, aren't you and I just sacks of cells too.

What in the fuck are you talking about?

That's just how it is. The governments change a couple of legal definition to try to fix the problem without anyone noticing.

One example is http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107pu ... ubl207.pdf

Not much information is findable, but if you dig for it there small references in the media every once in a while, most people want it covered up.

Here's something from the UK: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 597136.ece

[Rebelnerd]

Three problems with that:
1. It's one news article. If you're going to start talking about hundreds of babies being thrown on shelves and killed, you'd better have some actual evidence. I could find more websites and articles "proving" that Obama is actually a lizard alien.
2. Even if the article is true, the person they interviewed says it perfectly: it's just an example of substandard medicine. This problem can be fixed without getting rid of abortion itself. If a ton of doctors were fucking up heart surgery, you fire them and train the new ones better. You don't outlaw heart surgery.
3. I'm curious what your position is on early abortion. As in, before the fetus has developed recognizable body parts and it still just an amorphous cluster of stem cells.

[classclown]

im pro-choice. simply because no one has every been a good parent. no ones ever ready to raise a kid. but i also belive yuo shouldnt sit around. if you want the abortion get it over with dont wait till the secound or third trimester. also i believe that its not even close to a living thing till it has lungs. if it cant breath it aint alive.

oh and orphanages and foster care can screw up the kid. really badly. so anyone at all that thinks thats better then abortion is kinda stupid.

[Sick Silent]

Well, I think that it should be decided upon by case. For example, if you were raped, then you should be able to get an abortion if you wanted, but not just because you made a bad decision in your life. The idea of killing a human being before it can be even legally called a human being is wrong; but seriously, rape isn't something you choose, it happens because some guy wanted to feel powerful or something and then... you get the point.

Summary: Abortion should be allowed only with rape cases.

[Thought Criminal]

While I do think abortions would be better than a kid rotting in an orphanage somewhere I think what sick said makes perfect sense. Just because you decided not to wear a condom doesn't mean you can kill someone. Rape on the other hand, if I as a girl and that happend to me I most certainly would not want HIM growing inside of me.

[Liquid]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Three problems with that:
1. It's one news article. If you're going to start talking about hundreds of babies being thrown on shelves and killed, you'd better have some actual evidence. I could find more websites and articles "proving" that Obama is actually a lizard alien.

There isn't a huge amount of evidence out there though. Just government reports in other countries, medical personnel who say it happens, and fundies who don't bother citing their sources. Documents get taken offline and you are stuck deciding if the archived stuff is real or not. I've got a couple things saved on disc myself, but I can't build an argument off it.

It's simply being covered up too well. It'll hit the main-stream news again sooner or latter though (hopefully not from Fox), it's only a matter of time, and I'll send a ton of people I-told-you-so's but then again not everything in the news is true either, Iraqi nukes for instance.

For example: Here's part of a CNN transcript that's still online ----> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... om.02.html

Quote:WILLIAM BENNETT, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: What about that vote in Chicago that turned the stomach even of NARAL, and the liberal senators that says if a baby is born alive after a late-term abortion, you can throw it away. Barack Obama approved that.

COSTELLO: What about that vote? In 2001, when Obama was an Illinois state senator, he and his colleagues considered a bill called the Born Alive Infant Protection Act which provided "that a live child born as a result of an abortion shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law." The bill caused an uproar in Illinois. Fueled by dramatic testimony by a former Chicago nurse, Jill Stanick.

Rebelnerd Wrote:2. Even if the article is true, the person they interviewed says it perfectly: it's just an example of substandard medicine. This problem can be fixed without getting rid of abortion itself. If a ton of doctors were fucking up heart surgery, you fire them and train the new ones better. You don't outlaw heart surgery.

Ok, if we think of abortion as a (horrific) form of health care... then you have a point there.

Rebelnerd Wrote:3. I'm curious what your position is on early abortion. As in, before the fetus has developed recognizable body parts and it still just an amorphous cluster of stem cells.

Well, I might regret saying this but I slightly differ here from most people...

Biblically human life bigins at conception, however a question remains; is "conception" the same as what science calls "conception"? If they've got a tiny brain already starting then it definitely must have already happened.
The morning after? Possibly not, its just racing through predefined encoding so that the body can start being built, there isn't any free will yet...

[NowhereWoman]

Here's my stance.
You can't have abortions completely open. Why? There are women who would use it as a form of birth control. Why? Because yes, there are such horrible people in the world.

But I can't say I want it totally banned, either. A woman or girl who was raped should not have to go through nine months of carrying the child of her attacker. And a woman who is either going to die from the pregnancy or whose child is dying where it may kill the mother should not have to die just to save the life of a child who is extremely likely to die anyway.
Abortion should be allowed in CERTAIN situations.

THIS is what makes me rage.
THERE'S NO MIDDLE GROUND IN LAWMAKING.
If the administration of this country made some law that said abortions are only allowed in certain instances, there would be extremists saying 'NO! It's a LIFE and ABORTION is MURDER!'
And there'd be other extremists going 'It's MY BODY, and I can do WHATEVER I WANT!'
People need to consider the fact that they're not the only ones on the planet, and that there's compromise needed for this country to survive.

It's not black or white. It CAN'T be anyone can have one or nobody can have one.

If I was stupid enough to have sex without a condom and got pregnant, I'd hope I'd be physically healthy enough to carry the baby and give it TO A GOOD HOME. NOT an orphanage. (Juno style, basically. That movie actually had some common sense!!!! except for the whole getting pregnant in the first place part...)

[Rebelnerd]

Liquid Wrote:There isn't a huge amount of evidence out there though. Just government reports in other countries, medical personnel who say it happens, and fundies who don't bother citing their sources. Documents get taken offline and you are stuck deciding if the archived stuff is real or not. I've got a couple things saved on disc myself, but I can't build an argument off it.

It's simply being covered up too well.

Or maybe it's just not happening. Did you ever think of that?

Quote:Biblically human life bigins at conception, however a question remains; is "conception" the same as what science calls "conception"? If they've got a tiny brain already starting then it definitely must have already happened.
The morning after? Possibly not, its just racing through predefined encoding so that the body can start being built, there isn't any free will yet...

I always find it interesting how pro-lifers say that a woman shouldn't be allowed to play God by choosing whether or not to have the baby, yet they consider themselves wise enough to decide what "life" is. Seriously, what give you the right? What makes you think you're so special that you get to choose where to draw the line on the scale of human development? If a woman is dead-set against having a baby, what does it matter whether she uses a condom, terminates the pregnancy the morning after, or waits a few months? It's the same idea. What makes conception so special? Seriously, why don't pro-lifers consider killing sperm to be evil too?

[NowhereWoman]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Seriously, why don't pro-lifers consider killing sperm to be evil too?

Some do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

[IllusoryDeath]

mangareadr Wrote:

Rebelnerd Wrote:Seriously, why don't pro-lifers consider killing sperm to be evil too?

Some do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

xD

[Rebelnerd]

Seriously, though. What's the difference?

[classclown]

i think technically the egg and sperm like unite so its a more conplex thing. but that about it

[Thought Criminal]

If you ban abortions people will just start punching themselves in the stomach so they miscarriage.

[Liquid]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Seriously, though. What's the difference?

Ok, If you want to know...

It's a matter of when it first has a soul.
The Bible demonstrates children as having a soul (or you could call it a consciousness I suppose) before birth. It's impossible to argue that sperm has a soul.

[Rebelnerd]

This is a public policy debate. Can we refrain from using the Bible as our source?

[aaaaaaasd]

That story about the 9 year old girl impregnated with twins is fucking sick. The Bishop should go jump off a cliff and take his stupid medieval opinions with him.

[CrayolaColours]

Pro choice. Rape victims should have the right to. I think I'd go through with it and find a family for him/her (Juno style). But I know some people just can't handle that. I think it's completely wrong is you just don't want the baby.

So, I myself am pro-life. But I'm all for choice.

[LOON_ATTIC]

Why can't they just donate their child? I know it takes a long time to develop, but a human life or a few months of suffering? IDK...

[Sunbourn]

My opinion on this has solidified a bit since I first posted this thread.

Pro abortion in following scenarios:
Rape
If giving birth would cause significant life threatening health problems to the mother.
If it is a low income family who already has at least two kids. They don't need another little fucker running around being a leech off society, since you know they won't have the money to pay for everything.

Otherwise, if a girl gets pregent, she made her bed and now she must lay in it.

[sswbm]

(06-17-2017 06:35 AM)Benjavaz Wrote:  I'm sorry to those of you that don't like my thread revival.

I believe that if someone that is pregnant knows that she isn't fit for parenting, then I do not find it unreasonable to not have the child. All an abortion means to me is one less child that has to be miserable, hungry, and potentially homeless. Pro life doesn't make that much sense because if the becomes homeless by trying to support the child, then both the child and the parents are in deep shit and could die of malnutrition.

Ever heard of adoption? And even assuming that that doesn't exist: being miserable, hungry and homeless, but still having a chance of survival in the end, is still better than being dead.

[the Analogist]

if you believe in Islam, then the idea that the soul is not put into the body until after the first 100 days of pregnancy, which btw, medically, is when the baby starts moving around and stuff, then the "when does life start" question has a clear answer.

also my wife could tell you as a mother of 4, their personalities were distinct BEFORE they were born. #thesoulisreal

[sswbm]

(06-18-2017 09:45 PM)Benjavaz Wrote:  Foster care is the worst system of finding parents.

Still better than being dead...

[the Analogist]

people who are "pro-life" are strangely anti-welfare.

how about giving human beings the resources to be or become independent since you're "pro-life"?