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Let's talk about abortion
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #31
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Liquid Wrote:Plus, abortion babies are born alive ALL THE TIME, just normally they are set on metal shelves until they die. Of course they are just "sacks of cells," with arms and legs, pumping hearts, crying in pain just like you or I would if someone had just injected us with a syringe full of a burning poison, but then again, aren't you and I just sacks of cells too.
What in the fuck are you talking about?

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
09-23-2009 09:01 AM
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returnal Away
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Post: #32
Re: Let's talk about abortion

You know guys, you're lucky that Juna from NYRA hasn't joined SS and seen this thread yet.

I mean...

Quote:I fucking despise Roebots. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. They dehumanize the unborn and try to take away the most fundamental right from the weakest and most defenseless human beings, AND THEN TRY TO MAKE ME OUT TO BE THE EVIL GUY! They're like fucking Hitlers. Oh, sorry, you got raped (or, given the ambiguity in most laws, raped someone)? Oh, well that sucks for you.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN KILL THE MOTHERFUCKING BABY AND CERTAINLY I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT.

Also, that brings me to another point. If you choose to fuck your cousin, I'm not paying for that homicide either.

Don't even get me started on the "just kill the disabled babies" people. What's worse, THEY DO IT UNDER GUISE OF "COMPASSION"! Are you shitting me? You want to say limbless babies should be chemically burned, or have their heads smashed brains sucked out, or cut into itty-bitty pieces, AND THEN CLAIM THE FUCKING MORAL HIGH GROUND????????

You want to call me "anti-choice"? Well, shitforbrains, I guess I'll take it then. Because so are you.

What, you're pro-choice?

WELL THEN LET ME "CHOOSE" TO RAM THIS FORK INTO YOUR HEAD LIKE I SO GODDAMN WANT TO DO RIGHT NOW!!!!!!

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09-23-2009 09:03 AM
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Liquid Offline
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Post: #33
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Rebelnerd Wrote:
Liquid Wrote:Plus, abortion babies are born alive ALL THE TIME, just normally they are set on metal shelves until they die. Of course they are just "sacks of cells," with arms and legs, pumping hearts, crying in pain just like you or I would if someone had just injected us with a syringe full of a burning poison, but then again, aren't you and I just sacks of cells too.
What in the fuck are you talking about?

That's just how it is. The governments change a couple of legal definition to try to fix the problem without anyone noticing.

One example is http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107pu ... ubl207.pdf

Not much information is findable, but if you dig for it there small references in the media every once in a while, most people want it covered up.

Here's something from the UK: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 597136.ece

//

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09-23-2009 09:27 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #34
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Three problems with that:
1. It's one news article. If you're going to start talking about hundreds of babies being thrown on shelves and killed, you'd better have some actual evidence. I could find more websites and articles "proving" that Obama is actually a lizard alien.
2. Even if the article is true, the person they interviewed says it perfectly: it's just an example of substandard medicine. This problem can be fixed without getting rid of abortion itself. If a ton of doctors were fucking up heart surgery, you fire them and train the new ones better. You don't outlaw heart surgery.
3. I'm curious what your position is on early abortion. As in, before the fetus has developed recognizable body parts and it still just an amorphous cluster of stem cells.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
09-23-2009 09:42 AM
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classclown Offline
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Post: #35
Re: Let's talk about abortion

im pro-choice. simply because no one has every been a good parent. no ones ever ready to raise a kid. but i also belive yuo shouldnt sit around. if you want the abortion get it over with dont wait till the secound or third trimester. also i believe that its not even close to a living thing till it has lungs. if it cant breath it aint alive.

oh and orphanages and foster care can screw up the kid. really badly. so anyone at all that thinks thats better then abortion is kinda stupid.

life is just blah blah blah. we hope for blah, and sometimes we find it. but mostly its blah. and waiting for blah. and hoping you were right about the blahs you made. and when you think you just got the whole blah damn thing figured out, and your surrounded by the ones you blah. death shows up and blah blah blah.
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09-23-2009 10:12 AM
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Sick Silent Offline
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Post: #36
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Well, I think that it should be decided upon by case. For example, if you were raped, then you should be able to get an abortion if you wanted, but not just because you made a bad decision in your life. The idea of killing a human being before it can be even legally called a human being is wrong; but seriously, rape isn't something you choose, it happens because some guy wanted to feel powerful or something and then... you get the point.

Summary: Abortion should be allowed only with rape cases.

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09-23-2009 10:18 AM
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Thought Criminal Offline
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Post: #37
Re: Let's talk about abortion

While I do think abortions would be better than a kid rotting in an orphanage somewhere I think what sick said makes perfect sense. Just because you decided not to wear a condom doesn't mean you can kill someone. Rape on the other hand, if I as a girl and that happend to me I most certainly would not want HIM growing inside of me.
09-23-2009 10:56 AM
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Liquid Offline
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Post: #38
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Rebelnerd Wrote:Three problems with that:
1. It's one news article. If you're going to start talking about hundreds of babies being thrown on shelves and killed, you'd better have some actual evidence. I could find more websites and articles "proving" that Obama is actually a lizard alien.

There isn't a huge amount of evidence out there though. Just government reports in other countries, medical personnel who say it happens, and fundies who don't bother citing their sources. Documents get taken offline and you are stuck deciding if the archived stuff is real or not. I've got a couple things saved on disc myself, but I can't build an argument off it.

It's simply being covered up too well. It'll hit the main-stream news again sooner or latter though (hopefully not from Fox), it's only a matter of time, and I'll send a ton of people I-told-you-so's but then again not everything in the news is true either, Iraqi nukes for instance.

For example: Here's part of a CNN transcript that's still online ----> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... om.02.html
Quote:WILLIAM BENNETT, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: What about that vote in Chicago that turned the stomach even of NARAL, and the liberal senators that says if a baby is born alive after a late-term abortion, you can throw it away. Barack Obama approved that.

COSTELLO: What about that vote? In 2001, when Obama was an Illinois state senator, he and his colleagues considered a bill called the Born Alive Infant Protection Act which provided "that a live child born as a result of an abortion shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law." The bill caused an uproar in Illinois. Fueled by dramatic testimony by a former Chicago nurse, Jill Stanick.

Rebelnerd Wrote:2. Even if the article is true, the person they interviewed says it perfectly: it's just an example of substandard medicine. This problem can be fixed without getting rid of abortion itself. If a ton of doctors were fucking up heart surgery, you fire them and train the new ones better. You don't outlaw heart surgery.

Ok, if we think of abortion as a (horrific) form of health care... then you have a point there.

Rebelnerd Wrote:3. I'm curious what your position is on early abortion. As in, before the fetus has developed recognizable body parts and it still just an amorphous cluster of stem cells.

Well, I might regret saying this but I slightly differ here from most people...

Biblically human life bigins at conception, however a question remains; is "conception" the same as what science calls "conception"? If they've got a tiny brain already starting then it definitely must have already happened.
The morning after? Possibly not, its just racing through predefined encoding so that the body can start being built, there isn't any free will yet...

//

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09-23-2009 10:59 AM
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NowhereWoman Offline
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Post: #39
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Here's my stance.
You can't have abortions completely open. Why? There are women who would use it as a form of birth control. Why? Because yes, there are such horrible people in the world.

But I can't say I want it totally banned, either. A woman or girl who was raped should not have to go through nine months of carrying the child of her attacker. And a woman who is either going to die from the pregnancy or whose child is dying where it may kill the mother should not have to die just to save the life of a child who is extremely likely to die anyway.
Abortion should be allowed in CERTAIN situations.

THIS is what makes me rage.
THERE'S NO MIDDLE GROUND IN LAWMAKING.
If the administration of this country made some law that said abortions are only allowed in certain instances, there would be extremists saying 'NO! It's a LIFE and ABORTION is MURDER!'
And there'd be other extremists going 'It's MY BODY, and I can do WHATEVER I WANT!'
People need to consider the fact that they're not the only ones on the planet, and that there's compromise needed for this country to survive.

It's not black or white. It CAN'T be anyone can have one or nobody can have one.

If I was stupid enough to have sex without a condom and got pregnant, I'd hope I'd be physically healthy enough to carry the baby and give it TO A GOOD HOME. NOT an orphanage. (Juno style, basically. That movie actually had some common sense!!!! except for the whole getting pregnant in the first place part...)

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Carla Franklin may be a whore. She may be a wonderful, kind, moral woman. Seeing as I don't know her personally, I cannot know for sure. However, I find her actions (suing Google, requesting the personal info of her critics, getting angry over random internet idiocy that she should ignore and be bigger than, trying to get this site in trouble because of a few users' commentary on the situation, etc.) pretty ridiculous and unwarranted. If she didn't want people to to be talking about/judging her, well 1. that's impossible, she's a human, and 2. she shouldn't have been a model or agreed to be on film. AND 3. she DEFINITELY shouldn't have sued Google and made all this fuss over a few random idiots whom she probably won't ever know expressing their opinion. Mmkay? MMKAY.
09-23-2009 11:45 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #40
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Liquid Wrote:There isn't a huge amount of evidence out there though. Just government reports in other countries, medical personnel who say it happens, and fundies who don't bother citing their sources. Documents get taken offline and you are stuck deciding if the archived stuff is real or not. I've got a couple things saved on disc myself, but I can't build an argument off it.

It's simply being covered up too well.
Or maybe it's just not happening. Did you ever think of that?


Quote:Biblically human life bigins at conception, however a question remains; is "conception" the same as what science calls "conception"? If they've got a tiny brain already starting then it definitely must have already happened.
The morning after? Possibly not, its just racing through predefined encoding so that the body can start being built, there isn't any free will yet...

I always find it interesting how pro-lifers say that a woman shouldn't be allowed to play God by choosing whether or not to have the baby, yet they consider themselves wise enough to decide what "life" is. Seriously, what give you the right? What makes you think you're so special that you get to choose where to draw the line on the scale of human development? If a woman is dead-set against having a baby, what does it matter whether she uses a condom, terminates the pregnancy the morning after, or waits a few months? It's the same idea. What makes conception so special? Seriously, why don't pro-lifers consider killing sperm to be evil too?

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
09-23-2009 11:49 AM
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NowhereWoman Offline
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Post: #41
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Rebelnerd Wrote:Seriously, why don't pro-lifers consider killing sperm to be evil too?

Some do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

An it Harm None, Do What Ye Will
An it Harm, Do Only What Ye Must


Lighten up! This life was made for experimenting, making mistakes, falling on our faces, and standing up to do it all over again.
Live for Learning.


Carla Franklin may be a whore. She may be a wonderful, kind, moral woman. Seeing as I don't know her personally, I cannot know for sure. However, I find her actions (suing Google, requesting the personal info of her critics, getting angry over random internet idiocy that she should ignore and be bigger than, trying to get this site in trouble because of a few users' commentary on the situation, etc.) pretty ridiculous and unwarranted. If she didn't want people to to be talking about/judging her, well 1. that's impossible, she's a human, and 2. she shouldn't have been a model or agreed to be on film. AND 3. she DEFINITELY shouldn't have sued Google and made all this fuss over a few random idiots whom she probably won't ever know expressing their opinion. Mmkay? MMKAY.
09-23-2009 11:59 AM
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IllusoryDeath Away
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Post: #42
Re: Let's talk about abortion

mangareadr Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:Seriously, why don't pro-lifers consider killing sperm to be evil too?

Some do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

xD
09-23-2009 12:03 PM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #43
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Seriously, though. What's the difference?

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
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09-23-2009 12:29 PM
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classclown Offline
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Post: #44
Re: Let's talk about abortion

i think technically the egg and sperm like unite so its a more conplex thing. but that about it

life is just blah blah blah. we hope for blah, and sometimes we find it. but mostly its blah. and waiting for blah. and hoping you were right about the blahs you made. and when you think you just got the whole blah damn thing figured out, and your surrounded by the ones you blah. death shows up and blah blah blah.
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09-23-2009 12:30 PM
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Thought Criminal Offline
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Post: #45
Re: Let's talk about abortion

If you ban abortions people will just start punching themselves in the stomach so they miscarriage.
09-23-2009 12:54 PM
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Liquid Offline
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Post: #46
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Rebelnerd Wrote:Seriously, though. What's the difference?

Ok, If you want to know...

It's a matter of when it first has a soul.
The Bible demonstrates children as having a soul (or you could call it a consciousness I suppose) before birth. It's impossible to argue that sperm has a soul.

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09-24-2009 01:53 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #47
Re: Let's talk about abortion

This is a public policy debate. Can we refrain from using the Bible as our source?

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
09-24-2009 04:23 AM
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aaaaaaasd Offline
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Post: #48
Re: Let's talk about abortion

That story about the 9 year old girl impregnated with twins is fucking sick. The Bishop should go jump off a cliff and take his stupid medieval opinions with him.
09-24-2009 04:52 AM
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CrayolaColours Offline
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Post: #49
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Pro choice. Rape victims should have the right to. I think I'd go through with it and find a family for him/her (Juno style). But I know some people just can't handle that. I think it's completely wrong is you just don't want the baby.

So, I myself am pro-life. But I'm all for choice.

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09-24-2009 04:53 AM
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LOON_ATTIC Offline
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Post: #50
Re: Let's talk about abortion

Why can't they just donate their child? I know it takes a long time to develop, but a human life or a few months of suffering? IDK...

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10-07-2009 12:52 PM
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Sunbourn Offline
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Post: #51
Re: Let's talk about abortion

My opinion on this has solidified a bit since I first posted this thread.

Pro abortion in following scenarios:
Rape
If giving birth would cause significant life threatening health problems to the mother.
If it is a low income family who already has at least two kids. They don't need another little fucker running around being a leech off society, since you know they won't have the money to pay for everything.

Otherwise, if a girl gets pregent, she made her bed and now she must lay in it.

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10-30-2009 04:56 AM
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Benjavaz Offline
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Post: #52
Let's talk about abortion

I'm sorry to those of you that don't like my thread revival.

I believe that if someone that is pregnant knows that she isn't fit for parenting, then I do not find it unreasonable to not have the child. All an abortion means to me is one less child that has to be miserable, hungry, and potentially homeless. Pro life doesn't make that much sense because if the becomes homeless by trying to support the child, then both the child and the parents are in deep shit and could die of malnutrition.

I HATE my school. I'd rather die than go to school for another 6 years.Fu
06-17-2017 06:35 AM
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Jop Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Let's talk about abortion

(06-17-2017 06:35 AM)Benjavaz Wrote:  I'm sorry to those of you that don't like my thread revival.

I believe that if someone that is pregnant knows that she isn't fit for parenting, then I do not find it unreasonable to not have the child. All an abortion means to me is one less child that has to be miserable, hungry, and potentially homeless. Pro life doesn't make that much sense because if the becomes homeless by trying to support the child, then both the child and the parents are in deep shit and could die of malnutrition.

Ever heard of adoption? And even assuming that that doesn't exist: being miserable, hungry and homeless, but still having a chance of survival in the end, is still better than being dead.

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(This post was last modified: 06-18-2017 06:08 PM by Jop.)
06-18-2017 06:07 PM
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the Analogist Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Let's talk about abortion

if you believe in Islam, then the idea that the soul is not put into the body until after the first 100 days of pregnancy, which btw, medically, is when the baby starts moving around and stuff, then the "when does life start" question has a clear answer.

also my wife could tell you as a mother of 4, their personalities were distinct BEFORE they were born. #thesoulisreal

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(This post was last modified: 06-18-2017 06:44 PM by the Analogist.)
06-18-2017 06:44 PM
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Benjavaz Offline
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Post: #55
Let's talk about abortion

Foster care is the worst system of finding parents.

I HATE my school. I'd rather die than go to school for another 6 years.Fu
06-18-2017 09:45 PM
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Jop Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Let's talk about abortion

(06-18-2017 09:45 PM)Benjavaz Wrote:  Foster care is the worst system of finding parents.

Still better than being dead...

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06-18-2017 10:10 PM
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Benjavaz Offline
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Post: #57
Let's talk about abortion

I think that you would pray to god to be dead if you were raped by your legal parent.

I HATE my school. I'd rather die than go to school for another 6 years.Fu
06-18-2017 10:56 PM
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the Analogist Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Let's talk about abortion

people who are "pro-life" are strangely anti-welfare.

how about giving human beings the resources to be or become independent since you're "pro-life"?

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06-19-2017 01:53 AM
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