Creationsim and Evolution... In ONE!

[Aviator]

Hi guys!

Alrighty, so, I was thinking about creationism and evolution, and trying to decide between the two. I mean, I do believe in a kind of god, but, the theory of evolution has a decent amount of evidence and stuff. So, I thought and I thought, and I wasn't really trying to come up with anything, but, this sort of made a lot of sense to me, so, I thought I'd share it.

So, if God has control over everything, he can alter time, right? Of course he can. Time can be changed, with the correct power. So, keep that in mind. If God exists, then in this theory, he can alter time.

So, my idea is that perhaps, first, God made everything. He started us off with Adam and Eve, and the world, and all of that other stuff that they say he did. Or perhaps he started us off as a humanoid figure, and sort of pushed us in the right direction to become what we are. But, I'm thinking, that at first, God started it.

And for a long, long time, we accepted that. But, the human race had a lot to take care of what with supplying itself with food and stuff, so, there wasn't much time to think about an alternative. And, we didn't have the technology to even carbondate those bones and stuff, so, of course, we didn't think of the theory of evolution.

But, now, we are here - in our present state, with technology, easy to get food, and way too much time on our hands. So, now, we're wondering where we came from, and we have the tools to figure it out. So, to take care of our thirst for knowledge, what if God went back, and created the first cell, and the dinosaurs, and everything that goes into the theory of evolution? Basically, planting the evidence for us to occupy ourselves with in our hightened state of intelligence.

I can see that happening. It's plausible, right?

[Cilaos]

I don't thinks it's probable at all, there's simply no evidence for god in the first place.

The idea of "god guided evolution" has been used for a while now, mainly by people who try to use it as a way to edge god into science classrooms, but it still leaves the question, where did god come from, I think this question still remains valid, even when you add time travel to the mix.

Every answer I've ever heard for that question can be turned around and used as an explanation as to how life or the universe exist without a god having been involved.

[Nah]

May I suggest that God is outside of time, and therefore does not need to come from anywhere?

[Cilaos]

Okay, you've got me there.

Now, may I suggest that if God is so good, that he get off his all powerful ass and fix some of shit?
Or at least prove that he exists.

Hidden stuff:

I have some recommended reading for you.

[Nah]

Well for your first one, the only way he could fix it would be to either force us into following him, or destroy us. He loves us too much to destroy us or take away our free will. So he made a third option, and nailed his son to a tree. This satisfied God's need for justice, and allowed us the choice of spending eternity with him.

I do not have an answer to your second point, so I will think about it and get back to you.

[Cilaos]

God's the one who made those rules, and he ultimately decides who gets into heaven, so who exactly was God saving us from by having Jesus nailed to a cross?
How exactly did that macabre display save us?

Jesus didn't even suffer very much all things considered, at the time crucifixion was a common method of execution, a person would be severely beaten and nailed to a cross (The nails went through the wrist btw, not the hands as the bones in the hand are to weak to hold a person.), the way the person was positioned was meant to keep them from breathing if they relaxed, so the person was forced to hold themselves up like this or smother.
According to the bible, Jesus died after 3 hours, but most people would be stuck like this for days or weeks before they died from the bugs or elements, or the sentry decided to break there legs and let them die.
So Jesus had it pretty good for someone sentenced to be crucified.

But hey, then Jesus got to come back to life and went to heaven to rule right below God.
What about Judas, I mean, think about it, Jesus knew he would betray him before even Judas did, so obviously he was meant to do it, destined, if you think about it, he really had NO say in the matter, and then he gets shipped off to hell to be tortured forever.
Sound like that in the end, Judas suffered a LOT more because of our sins, so why not worship him instead?

Also, what's this free will bullshit, your choices are either, do and think whatever god says whenever god says without questioning anything, or go to hell to be tortured forever.
How kind, loving, forgiving, and accepting of him.
If we had free will, why not an option C to just opt out of the whole thing and stop existing altogether.
By the way, heaven doesn't sound all that great, the way most people describe it, it sounds like you're given a lobotomy and then spend the rest of eternity telling God how awesome he is.

[Fuckthesystem]

I've changed my perspective on creationism a bit. I believe there very well may be a spirit, and an afterlife.

There's plenty of evidence for this, whether you realize it or not. I sure didn't only a few days ago. But hey, i'm bipolar, so go easy on me.

I think i'm relying more on what will happen, if anything, in 2012. If nothing happens, then I may call bullshit on all of this. However, i've opted to keep an open mind about these kind of things.

Sounds odd coming from a dude who used alot of energy bashing creationism, but, whatever.

Not going to argue about anything of this nature again, but this is where i'm at. Do I believe in a personal God? Hmm, maybe not. But my view on humanism and life has pretty much remained the same, all things considered.

[SoulRiser]

The evolution theory explains most things except something called the "big bang", which afaik nobody has an explanation for yet. So... easy solution: the "big bang" = God. And therefore both can be true. Now unless some scientist can prove beyond all doubt that the "big bang" wasn't God, that seems like the most plausible explanation to me.

I also don't think the nailing Jesus to the cross thing had much of anything to do with "saving" people. I think Jesus came to earth as an example, to show us how we're supposed to try to be, as a good role model. I actually also seriously think that the church people saw to profit from twisting the details somewhat to make it a story about being saved rather than keeping the emphasis on him being a role model. Now everyone's excuse is "yes, we're supposed to try to be like Jesus, but he was perfect, and nobody expects us to be perfect!" ... so that's a nice excuse to continue being a douche.

[classclown]

its depends on what religion your talking about. catholics believe that time doesnt excist for god and he sees everything at ounce. the big reason why religion is proved wrong, is because how can the would be created in only seven days. we got prove new animals came along

and the jesus thing i agree with zherneboh. god killing his son is messed up. not to mention he wanted abraham to kill his son too. so personally i think god has a thing for killing sons.

[~Mystery~]

I really hope the Bible is wrong.If not, Gods an Ass,

he kills his own creations. Everyone knows if a design is flawed its the designers fault not the design itself.

He condones slavery, circumcision, and the slaying of your own childeren. Therefore he is a morally flawed god

Christians who don't stone their childeren to death for talking back are hypocrites.

They will argue "Oh thats the old testament so it doesn't apply" when the ten commandments are old testament

God also encourages ignorance and discourages enlightenment, when he talks about blind faith.


Not to mention he judges people based on their beliefs and not their actions or character.

[Milk2Go]

A mythical giant touched the ground, creating simple, albeit complex, matter out of nothing for no reason whatsoever. That makes a lot of sense.

[classclown]

the one that bug me the most in the bible is him killing the first borns in egypt. wtf was that

[Cilaos]

He has a thing for killing in general, not just of sons.

Sapient Wrote:How many did God kill vs Satan?

How many people did God kill in the Bible?

It's impossible to say for sure, but plenty. How many did God drown in the flood or burn to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptians did he kill? There's just no way to count them all. This list doesn't include those figures.

SAB, Brick Testament Number Killed Cumulative Total
Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 1
Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, BT 1 2
Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 3
For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 3003
Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 3005
A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 3006
A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36, BT 1 3007
Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 3019+
Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 3269+
For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 17,969+
For "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 41,969+
Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 131,969+
God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 131,974+
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 143,974+
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 153,974+
Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 153,975+
God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 163,975+
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 283,975+
The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 284,005+
The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 285,005+
Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 288,005+
"The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 313,105+
More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 338,105+
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19 50,070 388,175+
God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12 20 388,195+
Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33 1 388,196+
"The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 388,197+
Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 388,198+
David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Sam.12:14-18 1 388,199+
Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 388,206+
From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 458,206+
A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 458,207+
God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 558,207+
God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 585,207+
God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 585,208+
Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kg.1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 585,209+
Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 585,311+
God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 585,343+
Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 585,344+
Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 585,355+
God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 585,358+
Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 770,358+
Saul 1 Chr.10:14 1 770,359+
God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chr.13:15-17 500,000 1,270,359+
Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 1,270,360+
"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 2,270,360+
God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 2,270,361+
Ezekiel's wife Ezek.24:15-18 1 2,270,362+
Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 2,270,364+
Herod Acts 12:23, BT 1 2,270,365+


But how does this compare with Satan? How many did he kill in the Bible?

Well SAB can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a bet. Steve's talking about the seven sons and three daughters of Job.

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job ... And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
...
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD ... put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
...
And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house...And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. -- Job 1:1-19

So it seems that both Satan and God share the blame (or the credit) for these killings. If so, then the tally would be:

Quote:

Note that the image I used isn't the one used in the quoted post, as tinypic took it down, but I'm pretty sure it uses the same numbers, I can't be bothered to count.

The Bible Wrote:"For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12)
"Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)

"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." (John 5:31)
"Jesus answered: Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid." (John 8:14)

"And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)
"the whole world is under control of the evil one." (1 John 5:19)

And Jesus said, "For judgement I am come into this world." (John 9:39)
"I came not to judge the world" (John 12:47)

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16)
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 6:1)

"Jacob said, 'I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" (Genesis 32:30)
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)

We should fear God (Matthew 10:28)
We should love God (Matthew 22:37)
There is no fear in love (1 John 4:18)

"But anyone who says 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Jesus) Mat 5:22

"You fools!" (Jesus) Luke 11:40
"You blind fools!" (Jesus) Mat 23:17
"How foolish you are" (Jesus) Luke 24:25

"But God said to him, 'You fool!' " (Jesus) Luke 12:20

"You foolish Galatians!" (St. Paul) Galatians 3:1
"You foolish man" James 2:20

"Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father." [Matt. x, 33.]

"Whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness." [Mark iii, 29.]

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee ... tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican." [Matt. xviii, 15-17.]

"Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles... If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink... He who rejoices at calamity shall not go unpunished." [Prov. 24:17; 25:21; 17:5]
"The Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you" [Deut. 28:63]
"The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance, he will bathe his feet in the blood of the wicked" [Ps. 58:10]

"Blessed are the merciful" [Matthew 5:7]
"Leave alive nothing that breathes. Show them no mercy." [Deut. 7:2]
"The Lord hardened their hearts... that they might receive no mercy." [Joshua 11:20]
"I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. A curse on him who is lax in doing the Lord's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed." [Jer. 13:14; 48:10]

"I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children." (Leviticus 26:22)

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)

"The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women" (Ezechial 9:4-6)

"When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves." (Deuteronomy 20:13-14)

"You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you." (Deuteronomy 28:53)

"The Lord said to Joshua [...] 'you are to hamstring their horses.' " (Exceedingly cruel.) (Joshua 11:6)

"... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." (Judges 21:10-12)

"This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass .... And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword." (1 Samuel 15:3,7-8)

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their women with child ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!
A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" (Jeremiah 48:10)

[conan_hifans]

that depends on what version of Bible you're quoting.
I've heard that bibles come with many version. these modern bibles are not directly Jesus' words. It was arranged on kinda meeting at Nicaea. It chose a few versions and discarded (burned?) all others.
The real one is Bernabas. Dead sea scrolls. Anyone has read this one?

by the way... Jesus was considered as God on that meeting, too. So, he was elected to be god by people. Sounds insane? but that's the fact... (which is rarely revealed)
Anyway, does Bible ever state that Jesus is the God? I mean, is there any line where you can read stuff like,"Hi, I'm Jesus, and I'm your God. Pray at me."

it's interesting to find out that Islam takes Jesus as a prophet of God. Not the God.
Hmm.

[Cilaos]

I knew all of that, including the part about whole books of the bible being chopped out.

There's stuff like those quotes in every version of every book of the bible.

Fun fact, in the dark ages the church in England made it a crime to read the bible outside of the parts the priest told you to read at church, because they where afraid the people would realize the whole book was a giant, illogical, contradictory lie.
Guess they didn't realize that people wouldn't actually read the book, while claiming they do, which is why most people don't know the bible says that stuff, people today still only know the niceties from it that they hear in church.

PS. there is no 'real' version of the bible beyond the existence of the books themselves.

[Fuckthesystem]

Evolution is real, the bible is bullshit.

There may be some afterlife, there may not be. Let's just live.

[Will]

SoulRiser Wrote:The evolution theory explains most things except something called the "big bang", which afaik nobody has an explanation for yet. So... easy solution: the "big bang" = God. And therefore both can be true. Now unless some scientist can prove beyond all doubt that the "big bang" wasn't God, that seems like the most plausible explanation to me.

Science does not attempt to explain formally anything that empirical study does not. Religion does. (Science also does not technically claim certainty, while religion often does.) The two can be entirely compatible, but they're not compatible when both claim to know the same things.

One area that science has not yet figured out how to addressed is, "Why are we here?" Sure, we can say that there was a big bang, but then the question becomes, "Why was there a big bang?" Because we have not figured out how to address this scientifically, a scientist should say that he has no answer. Religion can answer this question through creationism, and the scientist might then ask why there's a god and argue that the religious model is unnecessarily complex and arbitrary and thus less elegant and less useful, but religion and science can sort of coexist if this is the only issue.

However, creationism can also answer the question "Why are we the way we are?", which can cause a conflict with science; evolution provides a scientific answer to this question.

[classclown]

the big bang is a theory nothing more. i dont believe anyone knows why/ how we got here.

[Will]

classclown Wrote:the big bang is a theory nothing more. i dont believe anyone knows why/ how we got here.

Florida similarly misunderstood vocabulary.

Scientific theories are much more than hypotheses; they've been tested extensively and are believed to be quite accurate, but they're not considered truth because scientists won't lie to you and say something is true when there is one ten-thousandth of a chance that it's not. A scientific theory is a pretty big deal.

Now, if you have little practical (whatever that means) need in your daily life to know how the universe started, what you think isn't a big deal. When you're studying astronomy and physics, it's helpful to base your work on an accurate theory.

[NowhereWoman]

I like to believe in alternate dimensions. I don't mean like sci fi stuff, I mean alternate worlds in the SAME SPACE as us. It's just that they run on a different wavelength than us. I mean, it goes along with the concept that we might all be percieving things differently...
I just think it's awesome to think that what I see as orange might be purple to someone else. Of course, they'd still call it orange, because they think I see it the way they do.
Maybe the whole world to me is completely different to others! It just seems a cool idea.

Anyway, I believe that we're very insignificant in regard to other dimensions/beings/God/whatever.
I think that the idea of God or some other entity creating us is fine, but I don't think it necessarily needs us to worship it the way some do. If a being created us, it was some huge existential creature that probably sees us the way we see a fly. It doesn't want to destroy us or help us or have us worship it, it just sees us as some small, little thing that will live, someday die, with no signifigance to the creature itself.
However, it's each species' and individual's own duty to add meaning to their own life(if they want it).

[Liquid]

Ugg, everyone of you has an obviously flawed position except Jonno, Will, and Classclown.

It'll take forever if I have to type stuff for each one though...

[Liquid]

Aviator Wrote:Hi guys!

Alrighty, so, I was thinking about creationism and evolution, and trying to decide between the two. I mean, I do believe in a kind of god, but, the theory of evolution has a decent amount of evidence and stuff. So, I thought and I thought, and I wasn't really trying to come up with anything, but, this sort of made a lot of sense to me, so, I thought I'd share it.

So, if God has control over everything, he can alter time, right? Of course he can. Time can be changed, with the correct power. So, keep that in mind. If God exists, then in this theory, he can alter time.

So, my idea is that perhaps, first, God made everything. He started us off with Adam and Eve, and the world, and all of that other stuff that they say he did. Or perhaps he started us off as a humanoid figure, and sort of pushed us in the right direction to become what we are. But, I'm thinking, that at first, God started it.

And for a long, long time, we accepted that. But, the human race had a lot to take care of what with supplying itself with food and stuff, so, there wasn't much time to think about an alternative. And, we didn't have the technology to even carbondate those bones and stuff, so, of course, we didn't think of the theory of evolution.

But, now, we are here - in our present state, with technology, easy to get food, and way too much time on our hands. So, now, we're wondering where we came from, and we have the tools to figure it out. So, to take care of our thirst for knowledge, what if God went back, and created the first cell, and the dinosaurs, and everything that goes into the theory of evolution? Basically, planting the evidence for us to occupy ourselves with in our hightened state of intelligence.

I can see that happening. It's plausible, right?

Plausible, I guess,

However, God preordained everything that comes to pass, He knows what will happen so there is no reason for Him to go back, as he could have done it in the beginning.

Genesis says that God created the plants instantly on the 3rd day, then water animals and flying animals at the same time instantly on the 5th day, then the land animals instantly on the 6th day, followed by man later on the 6th day. Obviously the earth was already in existence at the start of the Genesis account, but it was lifeless. The Bible never states that plants and animals cannot evolve or change, however it does not leave room for the possibility that man comes form monkeys or that land animals were were originally fish.

Darwin's original hypothesis did not directly challenge the Bible, as he allowed that there may have been multiple original forms and didn't touch on man at first, but to say all life descended from one form, or that man descended from any other form, is contrary to the Bible.

[Liquid]

Zherneboh Wrote:God's the one who made those rules, and he ultimately decides who gets into heaven, so who exactly was God saving us from by having Jesus nailed to a cross?
How exactly did that macabre display save us?

God is just, that's why sin needed to be paid for. We were saved from having to bare the punishment for our own sins. So Christ was punished instead of us.

Zherneboh Wrote:Jesus didn't even suffer very much all things considered, at the time crucifixion was a common method of execution, a person would be severely beaten and nailed to a cross (The nails went through the wrist btw, not the hands as the bones in the hand are to weak to hold a person.), the way the person was positioned was meant to keep them from breathing if they relaxed, so the person was forced to hold themselves up like this or smother.
According to the bible, Jesus died after 3 hours, but most people would be stuck like this for days or weeks before they died from the bugs or elements, or the sentry decided to break there legs and let them die.
So Jesus had it pretty good for someone sentenced to be crucified.

No, when Christ was crucified He had the bare far more than the crucifixion itself, He had to bare the the wrath of God against every sin (past, present, and future) in the history of the world. He died after it was accomplished, He said "It is finished" before allowing himself to die. The soldiers there knew that he did not die normally.

Zherneboh Wrote:But hey, then Jesus got to come back to life and went to heaven to rule right below God.
What about Judas, I mean, think about it, Jesus knew he would betray him before even Judas did, so obviously he was meant to do it, destined, if you think about it, he really had NO say in the matter, and then he gets shipped off to hell to be tortured forever.
Sound like that in the end, Judas suffered a LOT more because of our sins, so why not worship him instead?

Did Judas know of your existence and suffer for you personally?

The Bible does not say if Judas went to hell or not, from the text you can easily make the case that he might have been saved.

Zherneboh Wrote:Also, what's this free will bullshit, your choices are either, do and think whatever god says whenever god says without questioning anything, or go to hell to be tortured forever.
How kind, loving, forgiving, and accepting of him.
If we had free will, why not an option C to just opt out of the whole thing and stop existing altogether.
By the way, heaven doesn't sound all that great, the way most people describe it, it sounds like you're given a lobotomy and then spend the rest of eternity telling God how awesome he is.

Um, no.

Why should your personality change when you die? In Revelation there's a crowd of people in heaven who have been killed and they were shouting for vengeance to happen against the people still in the world, until they were quieted down.

Also, what God says is inherently right, because due to His very nature He is unable to do wrong.

[returnal]

Liquid Wrote:Also, what God says is inherently right, because due to His very nature He is unable to do wrong.

How can you be sure that he even exists? He was just buffered in by a fictional book, although it's closer to a groupthink self-help epic than a nice little fable.

[Liquid]

classclown Wrote:its depends on what religion your talking about. catholics believe that time doesnt excist for god and he sees everything at ounce. the big reason why religion is proved wrong, is because how can the would be created in only seven days. we got prove new animals came along

and the jesus thing i agree with zherneboh. god killing his son is messed up. not to mention he wanted abraham to kill his son too. so personally i think god has a thing for killing sons.

Six days, not seven.

Also the world could had been created instantly if God so desired.

Abraham was told to kill his son, but God then told him to use the ram as a substitute. The event really happened of course, but it's purpose is symbolic. Obviously you are starting to realize that there is symbolism about the "first born son", and "substitution" all over the old testament.

[Liquid]

Newtown Wrote:

Liquid Wrote:Also, what God says is inherently right, because due to His very nature He is unable to do wrong.

How can you be sure that he even exists? He was just buffered in by a fictional book, although it's closer to a groupthink self-help epic than a nice little fable.

How can I be sure? I don't really know why I am sure, but I'm just sure.

(I'll finish debunking everyone else later, I'm running short on time, there's a class starting in this room in five minutes and I've gotta leave before anyone gets here.)

[Pieman]

These are two controversial topics, things that have undergone much debate over the years by many scientists and many theories have arisen. It would be difficult for me to pose a substantial opinion without some thinking. Possible edit later.

[Milk2Go]

If God exists, why does he choose to govern our planet and our planet only, out of the potential thousands of other planets that also have intelligent life?