U.S. A communist country?

[gore goroth]

Is the U.S. (and most of the world's first world countries for that matter) a communist country? y/n

Read and discuss:http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Man...lanks.html

[brainiac3397]

No.

Communist countries dont have corporate lobby groups and zionists telling them what to do.

[darkmind15]

does it really matter we are fucked either way

[mundelow]

(03-06-2014 01:23 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  No.

Communist countries dont have corporate lobby groups and zionists telling them what to do.

Agreed. The U.S. economy is designed so that the vast amount of money flows upwards towards the rich elite. They also control the government. Plutocracy, oligarchy, definitely not communism.

[Alistoriv]

Totallly, that's why we have no money and the top 1% doesn't exist.

Nah, we're a plutocracy with a mixed economy.

[I Must Enter a Username]

Yes, but thanks to Obama succeeding Clinton's Communist Czarship, it's 200% communism now.

On a more serious note, here's a great post on RL that covers this: http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p...ostcount=2

[TheShadow]

Probably an Oligarchy.

[I Must Enter a Username]

This talk of oligarchy and plutocracy reminds me of this recent discussion on RL:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/major-study-pr...index.html
The thread starts getting interesting by the 4th post:

Quote:I really don't see what the point is in pretending that the US is anything else than a bourgeois democracy of the garden variety. Yes, the government acts as the executive committee of the bourgeoisie - not "the economic elite" or, even worse, "corporations" - but that's the problem with class society. Calling it an "oligarchy", as if the US were turn-of-the-century Guatemala, gives rise to the illusion that we (well, you Americans, I guess) need a "more democratic" system with the economic basis of capitalism - the private ownership of the means of production - untouched.

[Night]

Actually there was a study done on this..

The study basically proved that the US is in fact, an Oligarchy.

Basically it shows that the average American has a very small, near zero, influence on public policy. One relatively recent example of this is background checks for purchasing guns. Now I don't want to get into a gun control debate, this is just an example. Around 80-90% of Americans support background checks. Did we get it? Lolno. Even with a leftist commie socialist pig who's going to take our guns!

Hidden stuff:

By the way, Obama is almost as authoritarian and right wing as it gets! When you look at what he actually does, he's only very very slightly more liberal than Romney was! So that's another thing, the united states is masquerading as a two party system when it's not!!!

Part of the problem... most of the problem is corporations and filthy rich people (*cough* Koch Brothers *cough*) are allowed to give tons and tons and tons of money to fund politicians. Effectively bribing them. You think when Koch cunt #1 gives politician cunt like 5 million dollars, that politician cunt isn't going to swayed? Isn't going to owe the koch cunts a little something.

Part of the solution? Get money out of politics.
http://www.wolf-pac.com

[Trar]

(04-27-2014 05:03 PM)I Must Enter a Username Wrote:  This talk of oligarchy and plutocracy reminds me of this recent discussion on RL:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/major-study-pr...index.html
The thread starts getting interesting by the 4th post:

Quote:I really don't see what the point is in pretending that the US is anything else than a bourgeois democracy of the garden variety. Yes, the government acts as the executive committee of the bourgeoisie - not "the economic elite" or, even worse, "corporations" - but that's the problem with class society. Calling it an "oligarchy", as if the US were turn-of-the-century Guatemala, gives rise to the illusion that we (well, you Americans, I guess) need a "more democratic" system with the economic basis of capitalism - the private ownership of the means of production - untouched.

That's an interesting post, but wouldn't the economic elite and corporations be the bourgeoisie? They own most of the means of production, as the REAL middle class are being squeezed by a recession and greedy, dumb banks/lackluster policy.

[Ky]

The federal government != the country
The multinational corporations != the country
The party systems != the country
The country = the country

The United States of America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth; it is the land of the free and the home of the brave, ideally. Liberty is not only a promise but an expectation. It is because of all of this that the three non-country groups above seek to take advantage of the people, due to very little standing in their way.

You know what they say; freedom isn't free. If you don't like having your freedom taken away, fight for it.

[I Must Enter a Username]

"That's an interesting post, but wouldn't the economic elite and corporations be the bourgeoisie?"

Yes, they are, and all of the posters in that thread recognize that as a fact, but I believe the point that he was making in that sentence (importantly: but that's the problem with class society) was that putting only emphasis on some corporate/elite/oligarchy thing ignores the definition of the general function of the bourgeoisie.
Here's part of a following post by the same user:
"Nor is it true that "the oligarchy" is generally identified as the bourgeoisie - it is identified with a section of the bourgeoisie, the owners of major corporations. This leads to a very rotten sort of populism that portrays Northrop-Grumman and its owners as the Devil incarnate, but owners of small and medium-sized companies as good guys. "

If you have any concerns of why these people oppose the small/petty bourgeoisie, there's been much discussion on that site going over that.

[brainiac3397]

(04-28-2014 06:03 AM)DoA Wrote:  The federal government != the country
The multinational corporations != the country
The party systems != the country
The country = the country

The United States of America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth; it is the land of the free and the home of the brave, ideally. Liberty is not only a promise but an expectation. It is because of all of this that the three non-country groups above seek to take advantage of the people, due to very little standing in their way.

You know what they say; freedom isn't free. If you don't like having your freedom taken away, fight for it.

Stupid Murikans have fallen farther in stupidity. Gossip, entertainment and fancy technology that blatantly steals our time, and the secrets of our lives, have permeated through society. American society has been rotted from the inside, a disgusting corrupted mass of weak and soft matter blind to it's coming doom.

There will come a period where a choice will rise, and America will either pull itself out of the shit hole it's buried itself in, or it will be oblivious to it and drown in crap.

And it will not be democracy that saves it. It will not be the constituents, the activists, the protesters or any good citizen. It will be the powerful momentum of war, of destruction, of chaos, of the brutal way doom brings forth the reality of a situation. How many dies will only depend on how blind we are to the truth of our situation.

[Ky]

(04-28-2014 09:53 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 06:03 AM)DoA Wrote:  The federal government != the country
The multinational corporations != the country
The party systems != the country
The country = the country

The United States of America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth; it is the land of the free and the home of the brave, ideally. Liberty is not only a promise but an expectation. It is because of all of this that the three non-country groups above seek to take advantage of the people, due to very little standing in their way.

You know what they say; freedom isn't free. If you don't like having your freedom taken away, fight for it.

Stupid Murikans have fallen farther in stupidity. Gossip, entertainment and fancy technology that blatantly steals our time, and the secrets of our lives, have permeated through society. American society has been rotted from the inside, a disgusting corrupted mass of weak and soft matter blind to it's coming doom.

There will come a period where a choice will rise, and America will either pull itself out of the shit hole it's buried itself in, or it will be oblivious to it and drown in crap.

And it will not be democracy that saves it. It will not be the constituents, the activists, the protesters or any good citizen. It will be the powerful momentum of war, of destruction, of chaos, of the brutal way doom brings forth the reality of a situation. How many dies will only depend on how blind we are to the truth of our situation.

And you think yourself better than this?

[brainiac3397]

Nope. I'd probably be beneath it.

[Ky]

Yeah, me too.

[brainiac3397]

Good. We can hang out and laugh as we watch them struggle to float.

[Miab419]

I suppose I could learn a thing from the two of you.

[brainiac3397]

No.

You would unlearn a thing or two.

[Miab419]

Learn to unlearn

[SeReNiTY]

No.

Oligarchical collectivism, as described in Orwell's 1984. There is Big Brother (the President, albeit being an actual being). There is an Inner Party (the rich lobby groups), an Outer Party (the people who work in government), and proles. The only difference is the free market. And even that's falling.

[I Must Enter a Username]

(04-28-2014 04:55 AM)Night Wrote:  Actually there was a study done on this..

The study basically proved that the US is in fact, an Oligarchy.

Funny, the RevLeft thread I linked to in my 2nd post (right before your post) was a discussion on the study.

[Trar]

(04-28-2014 09:32 AM)I Must Enter a Username Wrote:  "That's an interesting post, but wouldn't the economic elite and corporations be the bourgeoisie?"

Yes, they are, and all of the posters in that thread recognize that as a fact, but I believe the point that he was making in that sentence (importantly: but that's the problem with class society) was that putting only emphasis on some corporate/elite/oligarchy thing ignores the definition of the general function of the bourgeoisie.
Here's part of a following post by the same user:
"Nor is it true that "the oligarchy" is generally identified as the bourgeoisie - it is identified with a section of the bourgeoisie, the owners of major corporations. This leads to a very rotten sort of populism that portrays Northrop-Grumman and its owners as the Devil incarnate, but owners of small and medium-sized companies as good guys. "

If you have any concerns of why these people oppose the small/petty bourgeoisie, there's been much discussion on that site going over that.

I'm under the impression that they're opposed to capitalism altogether. I'm of the opinion that we just need to turn our unfettered capitalism into fettered capitalism that doesn't shit on everyone but those at the top; because I think capitalism can be good for us if we harness it. I don't have a problem with rich people being rich as long as we can pay for and maintain the public good (such as bridges) and the relatively poor being relatively poor so long as they can still live decently and with all the rights they are entitled to.

[I Must Enter a Username]

You're a social democrat, or a radical communist revolutionary (if you're asking Limbaugh or the weirdo that created this thread twice)

Yes, they are against capitalism. They do have a small restriction section for soc dems/liberals/progressives/"moderates"/whatever which unrestricted members can also participate in, but there's not a lot of active restricted members. Fascists are never allowed.

I am not sure sure what Libcom's (short for libertarian communist) policy on social democrats is, but it must be pretty similar with what they do with MLs.

[Trar]

I suppose that's another way of putting 'progressive'.

And I can see where they're coming from. I'm not sure about how they restrict the posting privileges of people who aren't full-on leftists (who aren't fascists anyway), though.

Honestly, I'm not strictly against uprisings or rebellion. I'd prefer peaceful change, but if push comes to shove for some of the issues (I like the quote "when the poor have nothing left to eat, they will eat the rich") I wouldn't be entirely surprised. As I said before, I'm not completely anti-capitalism, I'm just anti-irresponsible, laissez-faire capitalism that ultimately only works out for those at the top; and I don't really consider Marxism a solution at this point in time.

[brainiac3397]

I'd prefer the poor and rich ate each other while me and my future loyalists stand in the shadows. Then at the exact moment both sides tire and cease hostilities, we pounce and clean up what's left. Thus shall the Kingdom of Brain be established across the globe.

[Trar]

Quality post, brainiac.

I must wonder, though, why gore felt like making two threads about this subject. It doesn't take a genius or a political scientist to see that the answer both times was and still is no.

The OP to the original thread is a mindbender, too. (Calling I Must Enter A Username!) Not surprising he'd be The Libertarians, in hindsight.

[Trar]

I like how this thread has one star. Just noticed that.

[Yato]

(03-05-2014 08:06 PM)gore goroth Wrote:  Is the U.S. (and most of the world's first world countries for that matter) a communist country? y/n

Read and discuss:http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Man...lanks.html

In my honest opinion, the United States of America is a multi-controlled government. It's controlled by big companies and bankers, rich people, Illuminati(yes I believe so), and God knows who else.

[I Must Enter a Username]

(05-03-2014 12:40 PM)1N50MN14 Wrote:  Illuminati(yes I believe so)

This might be an interesting read for you:
https://libcom.org/library/how-overthrow-illuminati