School :(

[Falsalm]

School starts tomorrow, for me anyway, and I really don't want to go. It's a wierd feeling, I have an empty space in the pit of my stomach every time is think about it. Is this normal?

[Ky]

Yes, it is. After all, who wouldn't be school phobic?

I know the feeling, and I probably get it more than you do. In fact, sometimes I have nightmares about school. I dread the day I have to go back.

Luckily for me, I don't have to go tomorrow, on account of the temperature being a negative number all day.

[James Comey]

I know how you feel. Those days. The first day of school from a nice and long break. What's worse is that it's January, perhaps my least favorite month of the year.

[xcriteria]

Not everyone feels that way, but it's normal for many of us who are "cognitive refugees," a.ka., people who don't fit with mainstream educational structures.

It's important to realize that people's minds work differently. Some of us need different approaches to learning. On top of that, of course, factory-model schools in general have their issues in the 21st century. But those issues affect people differently.

What about school is bugging you the most?

[James Comey]

@xcriteria For me, if I had to say what was bugging me about school the most, I'll say this..... everything. Being in that building, being with people I don't like, not allowed to question a teacher without threat, teachers I don't like, those horrible passing periods, the tedious boredom that tires you out so much you're left with no energy at the end, the sleep schedules, just about everything about school.

[Christian Hellhound]

I know how you feel. I have to go back to school tomorrow, too. :(

[xcriteria]

@Hansgrohe, heh, I hear you. I wonder, what do others in your school think about it? Have you found others who feel the same way?

And... I wonder, could you (or any of you in school) find a way to administer a school experience and learning preference survey to your fellow students? Either informally, yourself, or by talking to the administration or particular teachers?

There's something called the High School Survey of Student Experience along these lines, but schools have to sign up and pay to participate. I've heard of various schools doing surveys like this, but often they don't do much with the results.

I'm wondering if a more ad hoc, grassroots version of this might be done, where the results could then be discussed within a school, or at least be a topic for discussion on here, on G+, and so on. How much is the issue 1 person in every school, vs. 10%, vs. 50%, and so on?

Sample HSSSE Survey

Maybe adapt that with the items you listed, and others list, like "I feel drained by school."

This could be a good project to put on a resume, write about in a college application essay, or just make a blog post about. It might also be a good way to open discussion about the nature of school in a variety of contexts.

[154bmag]

I'm going through that feeling too, i think most everyone knows that feeling

[James Comey]

(01-06-2014 01:32 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  @Hansgrohe, heh, I hear you. I wonder, what do others in your school think about it? Have you found others who feel the same way?

And... I wonder, could you (or any of you in school) find a way to administer a school experience and learning preference survey to your fellow students? Either informally, yourself, or by talking to the administration or particular teachers?

There's something called the High School Survey of Student Experience along these lines, but schools have to sign up and pay to participate. I've heard of various schools doing surveys like this, but often they don't do much with the results.

I'm wondering if a more ad hoc, grassroots version of this might be done, where the results could then be discussed within a school, or at least be a topic for discussion on here, on G+, and so on. How much is the issue 1 person in every school, vs. 10%, vs. 50%, and so on?

Sample HSSSE Survey

Maybe adapt that with the items you listed, and others list, like "I feel drained by school."

This could be a good project to put on a resume, write about in a college application essay, or just make a blog post about. It might also be a good way to open discussion about the nature of school in a variety of contexts.

Hmm, this sounds like a very interesting experiment, xcriteria. At lunch time, I could go around asking many students how they were feeling the night before they had to go back, how they're feeling now, what they feel school does to them, what kind of state of mind they are at that point, and whether they are satisfied with school. This could be a good survey, hopefully the school won't try to interrupt it.

Once again, a great idea xcriteria. So great, I actually will do it. It's extremely simple and easy to do. Perhaps in the next 2 days I can start a topic around here but also on G+. Definitely worth it. I feel that the feelings, thoughts, and problems of teenagers are not very well represented or understood, so this might help.

[1312]

I'm leaving for bus in 30 minutes... And all I wanna do is just play fucking AC4BF...

BRACE FOR IMPACT! and good luck to everyone today!

[brainiac3397]

My spring semester starts Jan 21 or was it 28?

However Im having thoughts of discontinuing. Long have I suffered from being told what to do, and somehow being expected to be motivated in doing it.

Some people complain about me procrastinating or being lazy or irresponsible. I fail to take certain actions, put current plans at risk, basically appear to be self-destructive(not physically or mentally. Just...life wise?). Yet it occured to me why. The base of all human action is motivation. The will of the thought that causes the bioelectric impulse that engages the muscles, that causes the release of various natural hormones that affect the body and mind in preparation for the action.

I lack that motivation when what I do is not of my own accord. How can a leader lead when his troops do not want to do it?(Eisenhower said something along the lines of "a leader gets someone to do something because he wants to do it"). When an incapable leader tries to get things done, they use threats, anger and short-term reward. But in the end you'll always feel that sensation telling you that this is a load of bullshit and you'll subconsciously sabotage yourself. You appear to be doing as said, but in fact lower your maximum potential. Your effort shrinks,, your interest shrinks, your care shrinks. In the end, you realize you do not want to do it anymore. You cant You wont.

Ill have to see what I can do. I might even go ahead and leave the country for a while. Getting a paying job in my native country shouldnt be too difficult, with family connections and fluent English. I wont become a manager or something, but the pay will probably be better than if I remained in the US and worked minimum wage(also combining fact staying with family practically removes shelter and food costs, though I do intend to cover my expenses regardless)

My suggestion(since the law has us tied till 18), is if you feel like you arent ready or feel like the path you are on is not of your choice, take a gap year. Pursue your own dreams. Live independently. Experience life outside the safe zone. Work a minimum wage job(Ive worked quite a few, even if only the summer). Learn to budget. Learn to cut costs. Develop yourself. Just because you dont start college at 18 doesnt make it the end of the world. Start late, who cares? Because if starting late lets you start prepared and standing firm, then you have successfully built a solid foundation for your entire future. You go forward knowing you can plow through it all, rather than feeling lost, confused and simply naked in a cold world(obviously being naked contributes to that sensation. World doesnt have a temperature...except for the literal climate and local weather )

[Gwedin]

I start on Feb. the 7th, give or take a couple of days. Aww yuss, still got heaps of time.

[xcriteria]

(01-06-2014 02:02 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  Hmm, this sounds like a very interesting experiment, xcriteria. At lunch time, I could go around asking many students how they were feeling the night before they had to go back, how they're feeling now, what they feel school does to them, what kind of state of mind they are at that point, and whether they are satisfied with school. This could be a good survey, hopefully the school won't try to interrupt it.

Unfortunately, the better you make it (printed survey forms, web URLs, announcement that it's part of a specific project meant to translate words into action) the more likely at least some schools would be to panic and try to shut it down, sort of like the whole Student Union incident (g+ thread linking back here.)

One way to deal with that is to make it more informal, like you said, just asking people somewhat casually and one-on-one.

Another is to introduce the idea to school admins or teachers. Tell them about HSSSE and see what they think about it. Some schools even pay to do things like this. Even talking to higher-ups (school district officials, school board members) might be worth a shot, or might not. Either way, conversations like that can add to the story. But, maybe start with a more casual approach first.

Another step, depending on your parents, is to let them know about your idea so if the school does freak out and call them, they might be more on your side.

But again, keeping it informal none of that should be an issue. I can just imagine a scenario where, like in some kind of movie, suddenly you have the whole school abuzz about their true feelings , or just as easily you might find nobody who even has any issue with school ("I'm so glad to be back! I missed my friends, and I can't stand being at home," etc.) But most likely you'd find a mix of answers, like HSSSE, at least if you ask specifically about things like how often people feel bored in class, etc.

Regardless, starting with some dialogue and sharing the results is one step in moving beyond the status quo.

(01-06-2014 02:02 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  Once again, a great idea xcriteria. So great, I actually will do it. It's extremely simple and easy to do. Perhaps in the next 2 days I can start a topic around here but also on G+. Definitely worth it. I feel that the feelings, thoughts, and problems of teenagers are not very well represented or understood, so this might help.

They definitely aren't well represented or understood. Actually, that could be another path to consider in a survey, asking about what people's feelings, thoughts, and problems are, as well as interests, hopes and dreams... then inquire about how school experience relates to those things, but that's a bigger project!

One approach to consider, beyond casually inquiring, is make a more in-depth Google Form, and share the URL.

Here's a clip from Google about a school that's actually doing that... but I'm not sure how much they're asking about school itself... surveys can always be biased in a range of ways by how questions are phrased.

Hidden stuff:

Watch on YouTube

[xcriteria]

(01-06-2014 04:32 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  I lack that motivation when what I do is not of my own accord. How can a leader lead when his troops do not want to do it?(Eisenhower said something along the lines of "a leader gets someone to do something because he wants to do it"). When an incapable leader tries to get things done, they use threats, anger and short-term reward. But in the end you'll always feel that sensation telling you that this is a load of bullshit and you'll subconsciously sabotage yourself. You appear to be doing as said, but in fact lower your maximum potential. Your effort shrinks,, your interest shrinks, your care shrinks. In the end, you realize you do not want to do it anymore. You cant You wont.

Yeah, motivation comes much easier when people's heart is in something, when they have some choice in the matter, and when they aren't resisting being controlled.

(01-06-2014 04:32 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Ill have to see what I can do. I might even go ahead and leave the country for a while. Getting a paying job in my native country shouldnt be too difficult, with family connections and fluent English. I wont become a manager or something, but the pay will probably be better than if I remained in the US and worked minimum wage(also combining fact staying with family practically removes shelter and food costs, though I do intend to cover my expenses regardless)

You might consider doing translation or work as an interpreter, in the US or there. It can pay quite well. And, if you can find interesting work, you can learn about the content of whatever area while you get paid to work (law, medicine, business, or whatever the topic is.)

(01-06-2014 04:32 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  My suggestion(since the law has us tied till 18), is if you feel like you arent ready or feel like the path you are on is not of your choice, take a gap year. Pursue your own dreams. Live independently. Experience life outside the safe zone. Work a minimum wage job(Ive worked quite a few, even if only the summer). Learn to budget. Learn to cut costs. Develop yourself. Just because you dont start college at 18 doesnt make it the end of the world. Start late, who cares? Because if starting late lets you start prepared and standing firm, then you have successfully built a solid foundation for your entire future. You go forward knowing you can plow through it all, rather than feeling lost, confused and simply naked in a cold world(obviously being naked contributes to that sensation. World doesnt have a temperature...except for the literal climate and local weather )

I agree. Also, it's worth nothing that you can start doing college-level work at any time, thanks to MOOCs, Open Education Resources, and various online communities. It's possible to receive credit through CLEP exams (depending on college) or through other means. It's often also possible to audit in-person college classes, though there are so many free, open ones online, it's probably worth spending time auditing those. Coursera, edX, and many others.

Some high schools make it possible to take college courses instead of some regular classes, as well.

And there are other ways to learn and receive credentials of various kinds outside of college, of course. Not to mention building up portfolios, resume, etc.

Btw, brainiac, are you (or your family) paying directly for college? Or are you getting grants/scholarships or loans?

[WhatEvenIsThis]

Tomorrow this ass hellhole starts for me too, and I have this same feeling like you.

But what makes it more uncomfortable for me is that next week (The week after this first school week) we have to give back our French language folders (You know, folders where you document about your presentation), and I did not even fucking start.

I do not want to do this, I have fucking better things to do in life, but when we do not give those folders back, those peopel get an F. Normally I would not give a shit, but you know... my parents, fucking grade sheet and all that stuff.

I just hate presentations so much. The point is for YOU to learn something. What are presentations even for? There are people out there who are really shy and can not stand INFRONT OF THE FUCKING CLASS and then are expected to be good at it. But the worst thing about this is... I have to present this in fucking French, which I am so fucking bad at. I absolutely monstrously fucking hate French... as a school subject.

And having not even started this fucking documentation is really a good start for school, also when my French teacher is the one I can not stand the most, eh?

FUCK SCHOOL I FUCKING DESPISE IT

[Falsalm]

(01-06-2014 12:07 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  Not everyone feels that way, but it's normal for many of us who are "cognitive refugees," a.ka., people who don't fit with mainstream educational structures.

It's important to realize that people's minds work differently. Some of us need different approaches to learning. On top of that, of course, factory-model schools in general have their issues in the 21st century. But those issues affect people differently.

What about school is bugging you the most?

Mostly just the feeling of being stupid. No matter how hard I try I can't focus or understand what the teacher is saying

[xcriteria]

(01-07-2014 01:15 AM)Fuxion Wrote:  What about school is bugging you the most?

Mostly just the feeling of being stupid. No matter how hard I try I can't focus or understand what the teacher is saying
[/quote]

Are there some subjects you do better in... or things you like learning outside of school?

You might try videos, reading, or tutorials of some kind, if you haven't... like Khan Academy or something else.

Just because you're not learning effectively in school, doesn't mean you're stupid. There are many ways to learn!

If you're having trouble focusing, is there anything you can focus on? Games, things you're interested in, some subjects?

[xcriteria]

(01-06-2014 08:35 PM)Ferigeras Wrote:  I just hate presentations so much. The point is for YOU to learn something. What are presentations even for? There are people out there who are really shy and can not stand INFRONT OF THE FUCKING CLASS and then are expected to be good at it. But the worst thing about this is... I have to present this in fucking French, which I am so fucking bad at. I absolutely monstrously fucking hate French... as a school subject.

It's possible to learn quite a bit by teaching others, including doing presentations. I do understand the discomfort of getting in front of a class, though... let alone trying to present in a language you aren't comfortable with. That sounds horrible. :(

Are there any ways for you to transfer out of that class, or study French on your own instead?

Btw, what do you plan on doing when you make it out of school? Are there some things in your life that are less aggravating and more worthwhile than school?

[brainiac3397]

@Xcritteria
All from grants and loan(the fed loan thing. Stafford was it called). Also have scholarship from college that pays half the tuition. My father also provides me money for other lesser costs like book/transport. However he cant really cover much.

[WhatEvenIsThis]

(01-07-2014 01:32 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  It's possible to learn quite a bit by teaching others, including doing presentations. I do understand the discomfort of getting in front of a class, though... let alone trying to present in a language you aren't comfortable with. That sounds horrible. :(

Are there any ways for you to transfer out of that class, or study French on your own instead?

Btw, what do you plan on doing when you make it out of school? Are there some things in your life that are less aggravating and more worthwhile than school?

Anything, just ANYTHING where I can help people. Not really in the physical way, but I want to help people psychologically in any way that is possible (Except for hypnosis of course... (Though that would be awesome)) something in the lines of psychology or just whatever there is where I can be mentally helpful.
From what I know I am a really patient and calm person when I am not in a hectic nature (Like schools), I only really shine when I can have a reason to rest and stay calm, it is always then when I feel almost dominant.

[xcriteria]

(01-07-2014 02:12 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  @Xcritteria
All from grants and loan(the fed loan thing. Stafford was it called). Also have scholarship from college that pays half the tuition. My father also provides me money for other lesser costs like book/transport. However he cant really cover much.

Ah, so you're getting a good chunk for free, but you're also amassing some debt the longer you stay in.

And then there's the question of the time you're spending there vs. doing other things. I know that dilemma of wanting to quit (and the relief of quitting) well. But, for some it's worth staying.

In your case, since you wanted to take a gap year anyway, and you're questioning it all, it might be worth doing something else for a while. You might also do one more semester, but register only for classes you find interesting (that's what I did my first and only full year of college...)

But then there's the consideration of having to pay loans back while you're not going to school. So the more semesters you stay in, the more debt (and payments) you'll have to deal with.

And that's the part that strangles a lot of people financially.

Plus, with all the free content (MOOCs and the like) available now, and the ability to jump in and have conversations directly with faculty (like on G+) it seems easier to put together a personal and collaborative learning sequence outside of class.

I think the time is coming quickly when there will be ways to get credit for that (there's always CLEP if your college accepts it, and sites like Degreed or the practice of building up a portfolio or "creative resume," based on a combination of factors.

Then comes the question of how to network with people and figure out what you can do for them. It's a bit different world to navigate with a college degree (opens up a range of job options) but there are also a range of others that just involve what you can do.

(All that's probably rehashed from stuff I've said before, but... maybe it's a shorter summary.)

What are your parents saying about the options you're considering?

[xcriteria]

(01-07-2014 02:23 AM)Ferigeras Wrote:  Anything, just ANYTHING where I can help people. Not really in the physical way, but I want to help people psychologically in any way that is possible (Except for hypnosis of course... (Though that would be awesome)) something in the lines of psychology or just whatever there is where I can be mentally helpful.
From what I know I am a really patient and calm person when I am not in a hectic nature (Like schools), I only really shine when I can have a reason to rest and stay calm, it is always then when I feel almost dominant.

Yeah, that's what I'm interested in, as well. That's probably some of why a lot of people go into teaching, but look at the "helping" you and a lot of people here are getting in what's supposed to be a supportive environment of learning (by some definitions.) :(

You seem more actively frustrated and enraged by school than perhaps anyone I've seen (at least in terms of your volumes of text about it.) I just wonder what you might do to channel some of that energy into either changing things or doing something you find more energizing and calming, like helping people.

What do others in your school think about school? Have you ever talked to them about it, or considered doing a survey like Hansgrohe and I talked about above? If you can identify others with similar needs, you might be able to provide a supporting role of some kind... or, maybe, even see about ways of changing how your school works (or write about your efforts to try.)

For some support on the question of languages, check out Ken Robinson's talk Learning, Creativity, and the Curriculum. He talks about how hard it was for him to learn German, but that he was pushed to take it rather than the subject he was interested in (art), simply because of the school's timetable. (And a bunch of other things.)



Watch on YouTube

[WhatEvenIsThis]

(01-07-2014 02:47 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  Yeah, that's what I'm interested in, as well. That's probably some of why a lot of people go into teaching, but look at the "helping" you and a lot of people here are getting in what's supposed to be a supportive environment of learning (by some definitions.) :(

I have never thought about being a "teacher", but I can see where you are coming from. It probably will not necessarily depend on the subject, but the way how I treat children generally might be the right way for me. But I am still not sure

Quote:You seem more actively frustrated and enraged by school than perhaps anyone I've seen (at least in terms of your volumes of text about it.) I just wonder what you might do to channel some of that energy into either changing things or doing something you find more energizing and calming, like helping people.

From what I can tell about myself, I can be about 76.6% sure that I am really this angry about school being so... full of depression and torture. The reason I am so is because so many bad things happened to me during school times, and the school is probably the #1 source of my depressions and unneccessary stress. What worsened it for me is how my parents always tell me how it is the one thing I need to focus on the most. I have let school ruin my life and my appreciation for anything I passionately love, and because it makes me feel terrible in any sort of way, it genuinely makes my brain ignite in absolute wrath.
On the other hand, seeing how I am pretty much the only person here who excessively uses different tones in writing texts and messages, that might be true as well. I am sure there is someone who despises school the same way, if not more, as I do, but since I know myself too much, I can tell whenever I steam in anger.

Quote:What do others in your school think about school? Have you ever talked to them about it, or considered doing a survey like Hansgrohe and I talked about above? If you can identify others with similar needs, you might be able to provide a supporting role of some kind... or, maybe, even see about ways of changing how your school works (or write about your efforts to try.)

They do not seem to have the same extreme hatred like I do, but when I talk to someone who does take seriously what I do, they agree with my decisions. But for the most part when I tell someone I am sick of being forced to do shit against my own will, they would say things like "But it is like that, without it you can not get a job!" and even some of the most annoying people would then say "I will see you next to the trash can then." or some shit like that. I try to encourage people the same way, but the results are always mixed, but show no real difference whatsoever. But the very problem is, I myself do not feel enlightened to just loudly say "FUCK YOU" to my school and just leave it out of my ass and live the way I want to. I am kind of a shy person, not extremely shy, but I have a hard time properly talking with people always fearing what I would do wrong. That is not the main problem, the main problem is that I have been in school for the longest time and I have let it make me weak, and I am just too afraid of making a big change. Especially when others would not support me in any way.

Quote:For some support on the question of languages, check out Ken Robinson's talk Learning, Creativity, and the Curriculum. He talks about how hard it was for him to learn German, but that he was pushed to take it rather than the subject he was interested in (art), simply because of the school's timetable. (And a bunch of other things.)



Watch on YouTube

This is the thing that happens with me: I get forced to do things I have no passion for, yet I am also forced to have passion for that exact thing. It is more painful than one could imagine. Things always get worse when I have to do fucking projects with people I do not even like. Of all the things I already extremely hate about school, having to do damn projects is probably the absolute worst fucking thing, and that says a hell of a lot considering it is me who says that.

[Falsalm]

Another thing is I have a skin condition called vitiligo, and next semester starts at the end of January. I have gym and I don't like to wear shorts or short sleeves shirts so everyone's going to dress nice for the activities while I'm wearing track pants and sweaters. I don't like showing my skin because people stare at me

[derpyderp14]

(01-06-2014 10:22 AM)Fuxion Wrote:  School starts tomorrow, for me anyway, and I really don't want to go. It's a wierd feeling, I have an empty space in the pit of my stomach every time is think about it. Is this normal?

Same.. I get social anxiety and I get bullied alot. But I try to ignore them its hard. But thats why I hate school and im not the smartest person in class.. >_>

[brainiac3397]

@Xcriteria
My father generally supports my plans. My mother rarely does. I can think of numerous ppans, some even something OTHER people like(my mother almost never listens to my arguements, even though my plans are directly involving me and my future...) She always seeks outside advice, since she doesnt have much knowledge of certain things(while it sounds arrogant or rude, I am in the end the most intellectual and knowledgeable person in my family. The one with all the brains, which has its downsides like how suddenly people expect you to bear the load of the family and drag them up. How about I establish and solidify my future before using me as life support). Generally the people she ask dont know me very well(in fact, nobody in my life knows me too well. Well, maybe for my family in Turkey that I met. They asked questions, and I answered truthfully. Key to knowing who I am? Ask me questions and respect my answers. Exactly what they did, thus they probably know me better then my parents and I only spent a total of 2 weeks with them).

Its worse when you get compared to someone else. Why? because it is illogical. If you made a mathematical formula, it would be apparent that comparing the experiences of one to another would be ill-advised. The outcome will NEVER be the same, no matter how many fractions they are to matching. 1 and 1.000001 are not the same. Sure you can round it if perfect precision isnt necessary, but when you add up those small differences as time progresses, they create completely different values in life. Since nobody can see the future, nor does anybody have the exact same factors, it makes no senseto compare because you just dont have enough facts(nor do some possess ability to understand the other. I can count how many people just cant seem to understand the way I think and perceive)

Thats why Ive grown to be so self-sufficient though. If given the opportunity to change my life, Id refuse. In the end everything in my past turned me out to be who I am now and Im damn happy with the way I turned out, even if me and my past arent compatible.