Don't let your grades affect your self-esteem

[timf]

Self-esteem

I heard an older pastor once reflect on his work with various youth groups over the years. He summarized his experience by saying, "If you were not honest with the kids, you wouldn't be very effective".

My reaction was to have two thoughts. First, why wouldn't you be honest. The second, why would honesty be less important with adults.

I would suggest replacing the phase "self-esteem" (which many people take to mean that they should tell themselves they are super, great, and special) with the phrase honest assessment.

For example many people, especially when they are in school, are told derogatory, hurtful, and mean spirited things. Rather than trying to counter hurt with self-deceptive palliatives such as I am really a super special person, It can be better to apply truth.

Consider an example where a student is ridiculed for not having done his homework. The student may feel hurt to be ridiculed. He may or may not have had a reason for not doing his homework. However, rather than take the hurt and try to sooth it with self-applied counter affirmations, it might be better to take a step back and look at the situation in truth.

An alternative is to stand there and take the ridicule all the while saying to yourself, "Pal you don't even understand that you are yelling at me for failing to do your job. You are the one being paid to "teach". Homework is an exercise I do to help me learn. Since you are not really teaching, is part of your anger at me that I am failing to cover for your fraud. This is a little like taking my car to a mechanic and being yelled at for not doing the tune-up fast enough."

Truth can be a powerful weapon. In the midst of bullying, abuse, and chaos, it can be an island of stability and calm. No matter what anyone accuses you of, you can declare that God (you know, the guy who made the sun rise this morning) created you and loves you.

When anyone throws some stinging comment at you like a spear, you can picture yourself snatching it out of the air and examining it to see if it is true. Someone may say that you are lazy, if it is not true, the spear just vanishes as a vapor, because you only let in truth. If you were lazy in a particular situation you may transform the spear into a pencil and make a note to be less lazy in the future. If you really are a lazy person, you may want to transform the spear into a walking stick and say, "God is working on me to be less lazy". No one should be "speared" for being lazy.

I think the reason that the old pastor cited truth being more important to young people is that many older people have given up on truth. Many parents and teachers acts as components of the education machine. They feel responsible (someone is going to yell at them) if they don't make you conform to the machine. They are not so much concerned with what is right and true and good, they just want to keep out of trouble.

Many times parents and teachers yell at you like a drill sergeant in the Army. This can be out of frustration, fear, even contempt. What they say often has less to do with truth than it does with expediency. They may be more interested in getting you to do what they think you should.

Once you see things in truth, you have to decide what path you take. You can go along a lot, go along a little, sell an alternative, or rebel and reap the consequences. Truth can bring you to a "Hey, I'm not the one whose screwed up" moment. Truth does set us free.

If you follow the path of truth, it will bring you into conflict with others who not only do not know truth, they resist any attempt to have truth exposed to them.

For example, if you were to say that the reason inner city kids do less well in school regardless of how much money is spent is because they are general less capable, you will be called a racist. Those in the teaching business do not want to recognize that more capable students learn more. They want to give the impression that they are the ones doing the teaching. However, the truth is you are the ones doing the learning.

It is sad that truth and logic are not all that useful as tools in dealing with some parents and teachers.

However, when it comes to repairing the injuries suffered at the hands of those who seek to belittle, criticize, and demean, truth is useful because we can recognize that if we were hurt because we trusted those who told us things that were not true, we can disengage our trust and minimize future hurt.

[SoulRiser]

What's wrong with being lazy, though? Most sane people would be inclined to be lazy towards mind-numbingly boring busywork... this does not mean that they would be lazy towards something that they actually consider important.

I agree with all your other points, honesty is better than trying to convince yourself of unbelievable things.

[timf]

Quote:What's wrong with being lazy, though?

Speaking as a person who is rather lazy, I find it difficult to be critical of an area in which I excel. However, I can recognize that there is a degree of laziness to which I could achieve that would be detrimental to my business. For that reason, I know I must maintain at least a degree of non-laziness.

I wanted to illustrate in my example that the person who evaluates the charge of "laziness" has to examine it in reference to himself. There is no absolute "Richter scale" of laziness upon which all can agree. There are people who are wound pretty tight. For them the line that defines laziness is much higher than I would define it for myself. The person who knows himself, should be able to tell when his laziness is approaching a problem level. The key to making such an assessment is truth.

[Slick]

(03-07-2012 05:43 AM)Aya Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 05:03 AM)Prince Rilian Wrote:  I've always observed how people act with their children in public. If I understand what hate is, then there's no question that most people hate their children.

Wow, generalization of the century right there.

That's such an ironic statement coming from you. You're well known for past generalizations and criticisms.

[greywolf]

(01-13-2012 04:09 AM)SaintVicious Wrote:  My school was pretty dumb, we had a 20:80 scaling so 20% of your grade were homework assignments 80% on tests. so if you didnt do any homew

O wow 20:80? That's terrible! Mine is 40:60. 40% homework 60% tests. And i barely passed math because of those damn tests. That has to be a complete hell for you brother. I'm sorry :(

[Naroj]

im a freshman in HS and im just not as good as i used to be..

[Unknown-Creation]

(01-10-2013 11:52 AM)Naroj Wrote:  im a freshman in HS and im just not as good as i used to be..

I am also a freshman, but I haven't cared about homework at all this year. The only assignments that I've done were ones that I had to do with a group of people. Otherwise, I haven't done shit. The vast majority of it is just busy-work.

[EntityCubed]

(01-13-2012 04:09 AM)SaintVicious Wrote:  My school was pretty dumb, we had a 20:80 scaling so 20% of your grade were homework assignments 80% on tests. so if you didnt do any homew

We only get two points for homework.

[brainiac3397]

Can I take that spear and ram it through the throwers guts? Letting it vanish to vapor is too much a waste.

[TheRevolutionWillNotBeTelevised]

Grades should be trashed in education completely. I wonder all the time why the hell we all have to be a statistic. Why we have to meet some standard that apparently determines our level of experience and intelligence in an area. It's total lies.

I see clearly that it's good to not let grades effect self-esteem, but today I found it hard to not get depressed when I got my progress report. It was failing. The schools we are forced to attend take control of our future in society. Even if you have no problem with kissing ass, sucking it up, and passively completing classes (which can be psychologically forced upon the individual with time if they don't abide); It's immoral to be forced to take part in vastly unrelated subjects, and have absolutely no other choice but to do what you're told. School work is a form of labor. School is forced. School is a lesser extreme form of slavery. I'm not trying to claim to be holier-than-thou, but there are kids in my school dumber than a rock that get great grades. All I want are passing grades, and these brainwashed kids are held higher in the grade system than me simply because they can abide and be obedient. This site is 100% right when it says that schooling is mostly based on obedience. It's a vicious system. It needs to be stopped.

[brainiac3397]

It annoys me when everyone talks about how the "Asian kids" are geniuses. I'm not Asian(in the sense people understand it that is. I can probably trace back to an Asian ancestry, possibly Mongol) but any time people see Asian kids, they go crazy about how smart the kid probably is.

Considering this logically(let's use China), China has a pop. of 1.5 billion(give or take). If we say 10% of every nation's population will have a high IQ, 10% of China will obviously be greater than 10% of Americas. Same for India.

Also, I don't look at school success but also "real-life" success. If intelligence always meant wealth, wouldn't the worlds richest people be Asians? However, when you check a list of the worlds richest people, there aren't much Asians. Just more of that typical stereotyping that ignorant humans refuse to abandon simply because either they lack self-esteem/confidence or are just looking for a reasonable categorization to make sense of something they can't make sense of through logic. Do you know how many times I had to argue with people about that stereotype(mostly because it seems like anytime I'm compared to an Asian, I supposedly "lose" though I've lived in an Asian-heavy neighborhood for half my life and know that Asians are just as human as any other human. Not only do the foolish peers of mine hold this view but some adults as well.

I also knew many people who had great grades and the school administration focused on them a lot(as sort of representatives for the school) when they aren't the brightest people. Of course the school supports this sort of attitude since it seems to be beneficial when looked at like a statistic. Intelligence does not always equate high grades.

[Trapacity]

Grades have always been a bull shit system to abide by. They're essentially teaching kids that if you do what you're told, you'll get "rewarded" with these meaningless numbers that are supposed to get you satisfaction. And if you do get decent grades, what have you accomplished? You've cheated the system! You were able to memorize a useless fact, complete a useless paper that only two people will read, you and your teacher (and both of whom won't give any flying shit about it after its completed, which leaves no lasting remarks or thoughts and is basically a dull, dry work of nothing but obedience) and pass pathetic tests that judge how well you know something that doesn't matter, nor affect you, in the future.

There's no incentive for me to do well in school because --ooops!-- I'm that one crazy person that actually realizes that all this crap they toss at you is nothing but bland information that has no purpose in my life. You want me to do well in school? Scrap the grades, lose the idea that everyone has to take certain classes throughout their high school education (i.e. english, math, etc.) and give more classes that students will actually enjoy and benefit from. If someone wants to take english and write essays all year, that's fine. But don't make the rest of us suffer in one of those designated prison cells amid the gulag that we call school, and allow us to take other class that are more interesting to us. Hell, maybe I'd enjoy waking up everyday to go.

The unfortunate thing is that people seem to think that these "core" classes are the only classes that matter, when in fact their not. It's engraved into their heads, really. Structure is everything, they tell us. Without structure, you can't support yourself or anything that you do. Really? If you think I lack structure, than allow me to demonstrate how I, in fact, have more structure than you do because I realize that what they feed us in school is nothing short of processed crap. And you're the one who eats it every day. That "mush" isn't very stable, because once you glop on a big heaping of reality, it just collapsed right down to the ground.

Its a terrible system, this whole school system is. Grades mean nothing, yet they seem to trick people, both bright and dull, into thinking that it really is. The classes they offer, the work they give, is pointless to most students. Why not offer something that's interesting that students are able to get excited about, want to learn more and explore and create and discover? That's how we're supposed to advance, but if anything, school is slowing the advancement, school is halting those who actually want to learn and explore and create and discover. I've had enough. If I ever get into a position where I'm able to change it, I will, otherwise I'll be damned if I don't.

[upgarr]

28 Funny Excuses for Missing School when you really skipped it.

Apparently these were real written excuses given to teachers by parents of students.
Dear School: Please excuse John from being absent on Jan. 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and also 33.
Please excuse Dianne from being absent yesterday. She was in bed with gramps.
Please excuse Johnnie for being. It was his father's fault.
Chris will not be in school because he has an acre in his side.
John has been absent because he had two teeth taken off his face.
Excuse Gloria. She has been under the doctor.
Please excuse Lupe. She is having problems with her ovals.
Lillie was absent from school yesterday because she had a going over.
My son is under the doctor's care and should not take fizical ed. Please execute him.
Carlos was absent yesterday because he was playing football. He was hit in the growing part.
My daughter was absent yesterday because she was tired. She spent this weekend with the Marines.
Please excuse Joyce from P.E. for a few days. Yesterday she fell off a tree and misplaced her hip.
Please excuse Ray Friday from school. He has very loose vowels.
Maryann was absent Dec. 11-16, because she had a fever, sore throat, headache, and upset stomach. Her sister was also sick, fever and sore throat, her brother had a low-grade fever. There must be the flu going around, her father even got hot last night.
Please excuse Blanche from jim today. She is administrating.
George was absent yesterday because he had a stomach.
Ralph was absent yesterday because he had a sore trout.
Please excuse Sara for being absent. She was sick and I had her shot.
Please excuse Bob from school from Sep. 1 - Nov. 1, he had to attend a religious sacrificial giving ceremony on Indian grounds.
I didn't come to school yesterday because I was feeling like I was going to be sick, but thankfully I wasn't!
Please excuse my daughter for being late. Her broom won't start so I had to send it back to Salem for repairs!
I'm sorry Tyler can't go to school today because his hormones are raging.
Please excuse my son from school yesterday, he has gangrene and cock itch.
A teacher was wrapping up class, and started talking about tomorrow's final exam. He said there would be no excuses for not showing up tomorrow, barring a dire medical condition or an immediate family member's death. One smart ass, male student said, " What about extreme sexual exhaustion? ", and the whole classroom burst into laughter. After the laughter had subsided, the teacher glared at the student, and said, " Not an excuse, you can use your other hand to write."
My son Michael won't be in school today, he caught his thing in his zipper this morning while dressing and is in lot of pain!
Please excuse Casey from school. It was Take Your Daughter to work day. I don't have a job, so I made her stay home and do housework.
Al was not in school yesterday because he was didn't feel like going.
Please excuse Ryan's absents he has smoked too much weed over the last few days and is extremely tired.

[James Comey]

Since last year, I've begun to realize that grades don't measure intelligence at all, it just shows if you've turned in something and you've done it correctly. It doesn't show jack shit when it comes to intelligence.

I've taken an IQ test before (I know IQ tests aren't great either, but I took one anyway) and I scored more than 100. Grades are just bullshit, as they are basically whether you turned in shit that you may not have liked anyway. Not only that, they stress the hell out of you, and make you even hate others. Why it still exists, I don't know.

[brainiac3397]

Isn't 110 or something average?

[James Comey]

(08-02-2013 02:39 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Isn't 110 or something average?

I'm not exactly sure. Check this wiki article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nations_and_intelligence

I'd believe the average is more closer to 95.

[RashedMohamed]

Well your high school grades and your GPA play a huge role in the college admissions process. Basically, you need to know what you have to aim for, for being accepted into the college that you want to attend. Some colleges require a 2.5+ GPA while others want a 3.8+ GPA, each college/university varies.

For class ranking, I'm not quite sure that if your not in the top 20/30 will keep you from getting into a good college. Although where I live, CA, the top 4% of the class get automatic accepted into some UC schools (which are good schools), but that doesn't mean that if your not in the top ___% will keep you from being accepted into a good college. If you lack in an area, shine an another one. Have you participated in extracurricular activities, have you done community service, are you taking AP/Honor classes? This also plays a role in college admissions. Each college weighs everything differently. Even with high grades, it's possible to be denied admissions.

[brainiac3397]

This community service requirement is interesting. I never liked it.

[Roboka]

(10-21-2011 02:42 PM)Prince Rilian Wrote:  I wish I could go back to when I was in high school or middle school or even elementary school, as far back as 6th grade, and just not do the assignments that I hated so much, or just not even get on the bus and go to school. I kind of liked school until I was 10. And the brain-washing didn't get to me until I was 10 either. But anyway, I remember we had to do these stupid art things in 10th grade history/literature class. We had to go to, like, different kinds of artsy-fartsy things and write about them. Some you could choose, others were pre-set. We had to go to the amon g carter museum (on our own time, not as a field trip) and write some shit about 6 of the pieces there. I hated it sooo fucking much, I hate museums anyway, I mean, I hate "art" museums. Science museums can be OK depending on the type. There was this one picture I was looking at, it was a picture of some deer, and I was writing some bullshit down about how realistic it looked and then I realized it was a photograph, not a painting. I just turned in what I had written anyway. But it was all so fucking painful, I wish I just hadn't done it. One six-weeks, I failed. I got a 54 or something. And I CRIED. WTF I CRIED. I don't understand why I cared so much. Yes, it was a shock because I had thought I was at least passing, with the minimal effort I was putting in, but why was it *so* shocking that I cried for a whole fucking hour? Seriously. The grades were posted in the front of the classroom and I saw my failing grade and I stood there in total shock staring at it for a minute, and my friend asked me what did you get, and I walked up to her and put my head on her shoulder for a second and then I walked past her out the door and I just wandered the halls of the school bawling my head off until the class period was over. Then later in the day, I found out I had failed another class also, but that time I responded to it in a kind of manic, fake-happy way, like, "oh haha I failed that's so funny! I'm so cool because I don't care!" But I did care. Why did I care? Well, I was in honors classes and shit. I still believed in the whole fucked up system, even though I hated the classes. The next six-weeks, I paid attention and took notes and tried really hard, and I got an 89. And I was weirdly proud of that 89, but the teacher just shit all over it by saying, "try harder and get an A next time.". I didn't let that get to me though, I told her off for being such a fucking bitch, and she said she was sorry for crapping on my accomplishment.

But anyway, that class didn't matter. It did. not. matter. what grade I got in the whole fucking class, much less one report card. It wasn't even an AP class, it was just "english 3" combined with american history. But yet for some reason I had actually fallen for their bullshit and made my self-esteem depend on the grades, upon my "performance" in school. I did end up passing that class, but the other class I had gotten an F in, I kept getting F's in. It was technical theatre arts, and it was the only class that I'd ever actually struggled with concerning the subject matter. I didn't understand anything that went on in that class. I failed all three six-weeks (it was just one semester) and the teacher took pity upon me and gave me a passing grade anyway. I think that helped change something in my mind, because I couldn't just believe that I was a shitty person... it had to be that this school thing wasn't a good way to measure yourself.

Anyway, I don't think many people on this website feel the way I did in 10th grade. I think most of you realize that your self-esteem should not depend on your grades. But you're still in school. And I want to save you. Even if college is useful for getting whatever career you want, high school isn't. If you're still doing the assignments just because you don't want to fail the classes, STOP! Fuck high school! Get out as much as you can. You'll say your parents would blah blah blah, but I think for most of you, that's not the case. My mom used to be kind of strict, about weird things, like giving me a curfew of 7:30 and shit. When I was 17, I just quit asking for her permission for anything. I did what I wanted and when where I wanted, and lo! she didn't bother me. Maybe she was just glad that I wasn't talking to her anymore. Maybe your parents would be glad if you just left them out of your lives completely because they probably hate you and hate spending time dealing with you.

The point is, I feel like the one good thing I can maybe do is convince someone to drop out of school. Even if you can't legally drop out, you can still functionally drop out. You may be forced to attend, but you can't be forced to do the assignments or pay any attention or believe what they say or give them any respect or make it easy for them.

And when I think back to all the times I was "written up" or given ISS, and how at the time, I thought it was so terrible, I wish that I could go back and laugh in their faces when they threatened me with that non-sense. A pink slip? HAHAHAHAHA! ISS? HAHAHAHAHA! 3-day suspension? HAHAHAHAHAHA! So, also, the next time you get one of these punishments, or get threatened with one, could you laugh in their faces for me?

The problem is, for some people or maybe just me, is that you may think you don't care, but when something like this UNEXPECTEDLY happens, you may find yourself in tears. Sadly, they have somehow made us care about grades and turned it into a competition. " "Ooh, I got 100 and you got a 90. Eat that, RETARD!!!!" (Someone actually said this to me once)

[RashedMohamed]

Physical Development - Going through puberty earlier or later than most girls can be embarrassing and make girls feel like they don't fit in.

Appearance - Rapid weight increase at adolescence- in preparation for bearing a child later in life (girls may not understand that it is natural to gain weight and may feel uncomfortable with their bodies).

Popularity - Pressure to be liked by others and/or to have a boyfriend (it is better if friends don't pressure you).

Grades - Girls often think that they got a low grade on a test or in school because they are "dumb," whereas boys blame it on outside forces ("the test was too hard").

Issues That Affect Self-Esteem

[brainiac3397]

Good info I hereby bestow upon you the title of "Not-A-Bot".

[no]

^But... but.... it's only tangentially related to the thread!

[xcriteria]

I'm starting to think my walls of text could be the starting points for essays, haha.

I wonder how much RM makes for posting those spammy comments. I actually think it may be a person, not a bot... but they're obviously pastes of essays intended to get people to click through to the essay sites.

Maybe the material is good enough as a discussion prompt that we can let RM stick around. Or maybe we can just build our own, improved comment bot, or hire our own comment-paster.

[brainiac3397]

(10-06-2013 05:29 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  ^But... but.... it's only tangentially related to the thread!

Note the lack of the "spam" word in that title.

[no]

(10-06-2013 01:32 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Note the lack of the "spam" word in that title.

Could just be a program searching for keywords.
"OK, they gave me this article related to self esteem. Ah! This says 'self esteem' in it? OK, post it there."

[xcriteria]

(10-06-2013 11:16 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Could just be a program searching for keywords.
"OK, they gave me this article related to self esteem. Ah! This says 'self esteem' in it? OK, post it there."

Yeah, that's possible. One of my first coding projects (for work), years ago, was coding a phrase search for a customer service system. Basically, companies put in a set of FAQ articles, and I added some search functionality.

One part of that was a feature that auto-processed incoming customer service emails, searched the database of articles with all the phrases from the email, and spit out a return email with the most related search results... "did this answer your question?"

Anyway... back to the topic of grades. I got that coding job... a very good job, where I learned a lot, without any of the grades I'd received in school, without graduating high school, and without a degree. I learned enough about computers on my own to be able to represent myself as valuable to an employer that was looking for help.

So, even though many employers do require the degrees that grades can lead to, many do not, if you can find them and find another what to represent what you can do for them.

All those stupid report cards... all those horrible grades... which were supposed to be the most important thing in the world, turned out to be nothing but scraps that I use to document how senseless my years in school were.

There has to be a better way to do assessment and feedback... and there is. But that's another conversation.

[IHateEveryone]

I really wish I had your attitude. For as long as I can remember I have wanted to be an author (yeah, stupid I know). Recently I've received a report from my English teacher telling me that my writing style is "pedestrian" and that I'm underachieving. I now fear writing, as I'm so convinced I'm no longer "good enough" and it has now become a chore rather than something I enjoy. I know I sound ridiculous and melodramatic but all it takes is one comment to change my mind-set.
It's the same in art - my teacher puts everybody's grade up on an excel spread sheet. Where am I? At the VERY bottom.

[Gwedin]

You seem pretty competent when it comes to English. Anyway. I'm a better writer than most people in my class (not narcissism) and I don't score very well. I only just scrape through. Same with a lot of my classes. For example, my preferred subject is digital technology (if you couldn't already tell). I have a genuine interest in this subject. And I'm really good at it. However there are idiots in my class who score better than me when it comes to tests (such as algorithms) because they stick by the instructions the teacher gives without thinking about what is actually happening at all. Because I think out of the box I give myself the chance to make screw ups (hence the lower grade). However by making these screw ups I increase my knowledge of how algorithms work.

This relates to the "factory-model student" thing. We HAVE to follow instructions. To do otherwise is BAD! Maybe this applies to you as well. Hope it helps.

EDIT: Oh, just remember, when it comes to being an author you don't really need to give two shits about school (however if you wanted to do something else that involves English such as a magazine editor, etc. this is important). There's no required qualification to become one.

[no]

(10-23-2013 02:09 AM)IHateEveryone Wrote:  I really wish I had your attitude. For as long as I can remember I have wanted to be an author (yeah, stupid I know). Recently I've received a report from my English teacher telling me that my writing style is "pedestrian" and that I'm underachieving. I now fear writing, as I'm so convinced I'm no longer "good enough" and it has now become a chore rather than something I enjoy. I know I sound ridiculous and melodramatic but all it takes is one comment to change my mind-set.
It's the same in art - my teacher puts everybody's grade up on an excel spread sheet. Where am I? At the VERY bottom.

I feel your pain. My English teacher said "nobody in this class can write" and that basically "The stated format is god. WRITE IN IT! OTHERWISE YOUR ESSAY IS WORTHLESS CRAP!" Then later in my creative writing class (the only class that doesn't make me want to die) I couldn't bring myself to write anything.

[craxyguy562]

(10-21-2011 04:21 PM)Prince Rilian Wrote:  If you just sit in the desk, but don't do the assignments, I don't think you will get detention or anything. And just sitting there and ignoring what's going on, or just taking a light interest in it if you like, is much better than trying to do the work and get good grades. Like has been said before, you can sit in the desk and read a book or something, but even just sitting there and thinking or staring off into space is better than trying to do the stupid assignments.

I wish I could do that, but I would get in big trouble with my parents.