Religion

[Ky]

(12-01-2012 01:12 PM)SomeRandomHuman Wrote:  

(12-01-2012 12:14 PM)DoA Wrote:  Man. If God decided to go all wrathful-Old-Testament-style and pick a third city to bomb with fire and brimstone for being a concentrated center of sin, it would be Highland Park. (Luckily, He doesn't do that kind of stuff very often.)

I hope that either A. he decides not to do that and to be nice or B. he isnt even real. I hope that doesnt happen. Him doing something like that would prove he doesnt give half a rats ass about people. WTF do you mean, did he burn 2 other ones...

The two cities He destroyed way back in the Old Testament were Sodom and Gomorrah; those cities were full of the Biblical equivalent of rapists and sex offenders.

Of course God isn't going to decide to do that; he's in fellowship with mankind once more, and no longer has any necessity to be wrathful.

[Asder Miller The Second]

what an interesting arguement,i grow up in a christian family(forced to go to church forced to read bible)idk if its true because WHY!? HE WONT EVEN PROVE HES REAL! so thats why im AGNOSTIC

[Ky]

(12-02-2012 03:58 AM)Spartan117 Wrote:  what an interesting arguement,i grow up in a christian family(forced to go to church forced to read bible)idk if its true because WHY!? HE WONT EVEN PROVE HES REAL! so thats why im AGNOSTIC

I have a Christian family myself, so I know how uncomfortable it is to be forced into a religion. That's why I dismissed it altogether in early middle school (I wasn't an atheist, agnostic, or anything...I merely refused to address it). However, God has performed an inordinate number of miracles for such a large amount of people to deny He even tries to prove His own existence.

The public view (away from religion, anyway) is like Plato's cave. Scientists try so desperately to study, inspect, and measure mere shadows, but the power of Christ is immeasurable, and we need only turn around to see it.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Since I have no fucking clue, so far I am agnostic. I think I may be leaning twords atheist though. And DoA, rapers and sex offenders aren too bad, there us pleanty of rape here. And nobody tells the po po either. And when you say god may blow up this city, so you mean he entire detroit, or just highland park? (assumeing he is real)

[Ky]

He's not going to do it, I assure you.

[SomeRandomHuman]

(12-02-2012 02:52 PM)DoA Wrote:  He's not going to do it, I assure you.

PHEW! Thats good, I dont want where I live to be blown up. Then I will be dead, for once and for all. But is he accually real? How in hells name do you know he blew up 2 cities? The good thing about living in this sparsely populated cesspool is that we arent a target for terrorists, because we are so deserted and not worth nothing, the loss) of detroit wouldnt matter to anyone accept its residents (who would be dead anyway) and the givernment might accually consider blowing detroit up a kind gesture...

[SomeRandomHuman]

Maybe if the government is religious, they pray daily for god to blow detroit up...

[Ky]

(12-02-2012 11:47 PM)SomeRandomHuman Wrote:  

(12-02-2012 02:52 PM)DoA Wrote:  He's not going to do it, I assure you.

PHEW! Thats good, I dont want where I live to be blown up. Then I will be dead, for once and for all. But is he accually real? How in hells name do you know he blew up 2 cities? The good thing about living in this sparsely populated cesspool is that we arent a target for terrorists, because we are so deserted and not worth nothing, the loss) of detroit wouldnt matter to anyone accept its residents (who would be dead anyway) and the givernment might accually consider blowing detroit up a kind gesture...

Yeah, but so would the nation's worst sex offenders and killers.

First off, there's nothing glorious about hell; it doesn't even deserve a name. Secondly, it's one of many Biblical stories.

In any case, you should probably get out of there. Living anywhere else illegally is several times better than living there legally.

[klub]

I am religious, I believe in christianity. So I'll give some insight on why I choose to believe, and I'll try to answer some questions.

There are troubles in our lives simply because we deserve it. Why should we deserve a perfect life, when in essence we are not perfect. Even the best human still has corrupt ways and has evil desires.

I believe slightly out of fear, if I'm wrong on my religion, there is no consequence. My religion has only given me good things, aside from the not so friendly remarks some people give me, I have made a lot of friends and a good work ethic. I also can't find anything that makes as much sense as the bible.



The bible was written by man, but the fact that it was written by many different authors over the course of a few thousand years with no contradictions and with all the same message in hebrew, greek and latin must have some supernatural intervention. Although it has been translated hundreds of times, there is almost no change in the meaning. If you compare the original text to say a new bible, the message stays the same aside from a few words such as wrist and hand.


I am by no means brainwashed, I have used deductive reasoning, and in my mind, religion is the only thing that makes absolute sense.

[timf]

In reading over this thread, a number of thoughts occurred to me. The first was that if we talk about religion in general, history can be an interesting guide. Our earliest civilization found in Mesopotamia shows a religion that supported an estimated 20% of the population as priests.

In a low technology culture the advantage of being a priest is that you do not have to work in the field all day. If you can get everyone else to believe that you are necessary in order to get a good harvest, and blame them for poor harvests, you will have a comparatively cushy job.

Quote:I wonder why religion exists. Doesnt it just cause wars?

I would say that most religious wars were the result of one society accumulating enough stored wealth to make it worth while to try and invade and take it from them by another society. Most religions in history are a set of declarations that present a system whereby if you do something you get something.

Christianity was built on top of Judaism. Israel was supposed to follow the law that was given to them and be ready to receive Jesus as King. Since the nation of Israel dropped the ball, Christianity came to the world without Israel (for now). Christianity was different than other religions because it offered something (eternal life) for nothing (just trusting in Jesus).

The problem with Christianity is that over the years a lot of people have turned it into a lot of different religions. For example the Catholics say that Peter was given control over the church. They point to Matthew 16:19 to make the point;

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
However, a more accurate translation from the Greek gives us the following; - KJV

I shall give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth , shall have been already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth , shall have already been loosed in heaven . - Wuest

Here we see with a better translation from the Greek that Peter has not been given special power to control things on earth, but rather a special responsibility to make sure that what he declares is consistent with what has already been established in heaven.

Quote:"Do what I say or I'll torture you" doesn't sound very "good" to me.

One of the biggest objections people have to Christianity is to the idea of people being tortured forever in hell. Many so-called Christians have waved this threat over the heads of believers and unbeliever alike for centuries. However, upon closer examination one finds the word for forever (aion) is usually translated "the age" or even a lifetime. We are told that judgment is according to works so that punishment is not any more cruel than is warranted. Also since eternal life is only given to those who believe, there can be no eternal punishment for those who do not believe.

Quote:^ Most Christians don't walk in love. That is their fatal flaw.

Thus is a very accurate observation. People shopping for a religion might look at Christians and see people who are frustrated, unhappy, and just as sinful as the rest of the world and ask themselves, why would I have an interest in this religion.

Quote:Face it. You were lied to. You trusted them, they took that trust and exploited it for their gain.

When you add to the confusion outright charlatans such as those who stage "miracles" for profit, you get a hodge podge of strange ideas, declarations, and misunderstandings that make it almost impossible to sift through.

Quote:I would open up to him if I can actually know he exists.

With so much confusion, it is not surprising that you get so many people who really have no idea where to start.

Einstein got as far as being able to say that he believed in the God of Spinoza who made himself manifest in the harmony of nature.

I would say that this is a good starting point. Rather than argue about various religions or flavors of religion, it might be more beneficial to seek truth. People can have huge emotional investments in what they believe. Anything seen as a threat can be counter-attacked with great zeal.

A person who does not even know if God exists may find that he can cry out to the universe that he can get wisdom and find truth. This tenuous first connective thread to the infinite may be all we can muster. However, the search for truth can start with this first step.

I believe that a search for truth will lead to Jesus. However, not everyone is even interested in truth. I do not think I need to argue for truth, convince anyone I have found truth, or force anyone to accept truth. If anyone is seeking truth and thinks I might be able to answer a question they have, I am available to answer anything I can. If no one is interested, that is fine also. I am glad my faith does not require me to try to control others or the universe.

[AtheistLGBTQAnarchist]

http://atheismandme.com/prayer-vs-actual...something/

http://imgur.com/pFOcW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_a6RjR_A...8TqwIjMdCQ

And the discussion continues.

[Ky]

(01-03-2013 09:17 AM)AtheistSpartanAnarchistPower Wrote:  http://atheismandme.com/prayer-vs-actual...something/

http://imgur.com/pFOcW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_a6RjR_A...8TqwIjMdCQ

And the discussion continues.

The discussion stops.

[Mouser]

(11-29-2012 07:36 AM)DoA Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 04:46 AM)Godzillaman Wrote:  God is not the one making us go through pain. That is His brother who I prefer not to speak of.

Not even His brother. Just a horribly delusional angel who decided he'd be a better god.

Satan would be a better god. Satan offers freewill. Yahweh flooded the entire planet, nearly eradicating all of Earth's species because the worship and praise of his serfs wasn't sufficient. He 'rewards' his followers with eternal slavery. Imagine spending millions of years at the service of a merciless tyrant? Yahweh punishes dissidents with eternal torment. Slavery or torment. What a horrible ultimatum that is.

[AtheistLGBTQAnarchist]

Yahweh: Does nothing when you live no matter how much you ask for it, kills people if people don't do what he says, and when you die you're his slave.

Satan: Does nothing but kills because that's basically his job, doesn't care about what you do, does whatever he wants to do with you out of boredom when you die.

Yeah you can say Satan is slightly better.

[Mouser]

Satan doesn't kill anyone, except maybe for Jobs' family.

[Ky]

I would love to point out just what horrible mistake you've made by saying that, but...

(01-03-2013 12:27 PM)DoA Wrote:  The discussion stops.

[greywolf]

(10-24-2012 10:08 PM)SoulRiser Wrote:  If you can't prove a belief is true, you need to ask yourself this... does the belief make life more pleasant and/or interesting?

If yes, might as well carry on believing it - even if it isn't true, it's still doing some good.
If no, might as well dump it. It's not doing any good whether it's true or false.

Or if you like being as 'realistic' as possible, by all means insist on only believing things that can be scientifically proven. Just don't try to make me join you, 'cause it sounds boring as hell to me.

THANK YOU!! It's dreadful that people cannot be found in more places that have a stance like yours. Thankfylly we have the internet

[greywolf]

(01-04-2013 02:58 AM)AtheistLGBTQAnarchist Wrote:  Yahweh: Does nothing when you live no matter how much you ask for it, kills people if people don't do what he says, and when you die you're his slave.

Satan: Does nothing but kills because that's basically his job, doesn't care about what you do, does whatever he wants to do with you out of boredom when you die.

Yeah you can say Satan is slightly better.

It's too bad neither of them exist by the way your username fits my views perfectly. Uh except im straight but i support the LGBT fully. Rock on brother

[scorchededge243]

(10-22-2012 07:59 AM)GreenLamp Wrote:  If we have no designer, how did we get here? One cell is more complicated than a rocket ship. Not saying that god is real, because I am currently undecided. But how? Billions of years ago, we just appeared from nothing and evolved into everything?

The Big Bang Theory says the universe has always existed, then "boom" and eventually what we see is now here. This takes billions and billions of years to happen. It's really not that complicated.

[craxyguy562]

resurrecting an old thread! yay!

[Trar]

I remove the atheist bit from my signature (not because I converted or anything, but because I don't want to project I'm some sort of denigrating r/atheism asshole, yes reddit can be bad like 4chan in some areas) and then I find this thread. (Also been reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.) The rational part of my mind will chalk it up to chance. (I'm sure if I were born in the Middle East, I'd be thinking more about Mohammed than, say, Jesus.)

This link is rather interesting. I've seen a number of atheists and atheist websites claiming that prayer and saying that one will pray for something or for another is ultimately meaningless because, oh hey, "there is no God, motherfuckers!" The person doing the praying still has it in their thoughts, though, as a non-religious person would also think about it (without any praying involved, though). "Doing good instead of thinking good" can also apply to non-religious thoughts. Christianity and Christians on a majority of the internet and much of the USA are far from being really persecuted, but 'internet rationalists' do give it and believers a good amount of shit. And then the fire-and-brimstone types condemn gays and nonbelievers. It goes both ways, I guess. (Peaceful, everyday religious people being shit on by ~internet atheists~ is something I really don't like, though. They have a right to their beliefs.)

I still don't like that stupid faith healing crap though. It gets in the way of actual medicine and has caused enough needless death. I'm pretty sure God wouldn't want godly healing powers channeled like that, by people who probably dabble in mysticism too. Then again, TIL that "God helps those who help themselves" is not actually scripture. Which is interesting.

Anyway. I can accept Christians, as long as they don't aggressively proselytize in my face or try to shit on the rights of others...which describes a good portion of GOP legislation and Catholic writ, although Pope Francis is doing a better job than I expected from the papacy. Satanism, on the other hand, is just weird. Hey, guys, let's if not worship then at least look up to this former angel who's supposedly a consummate liar and deceiver who got kicked out of Heaven for a failed coup d'etat so we can live vaguely in our own self-interest instead of worshiping God! Oh yeah, and creepy rituals. That too. Individual thought is good, but this seems like a very roundabout way to do it. I would have thought God would appreciate it, as well, but then again I stopped believing around 2007 and never really got to examine the religion that closely, so I don't know. Given the nature of biblical and clerical thought, I'm not too optimistic.

Wait a minute. Satainism, at least LaVeyan Satanism, is worse than I thought. Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the Satanic Bible (which oddly enough is not called a leliB):

Quote:Much of the first book of The Satanic Bible is taken from parts of Redbeard's Might Is Right, edited to remove the racism, antisemitism, and misogyny present in the original version. It challenges both the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule, advocating instead a tooth-for-tooth philosophy. LaVey, through Redbeard, strongly advocates social Darwinism, saying, "Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong!" Humans are identified as instinctually predatory, and "lust and carnal desire" are singled out as part of humans' intrinsic nature. The Book of Satan suggests a hedonistic outlook, saying, "I break away from all conventions that do not lead to my earthly happiness." Indulgence is endorsed, and readers are encouraged to make the most of their lives. It criticizes both law and religious principles, instead suggesting doing only what makes one happy and successful.

So it's akin to a mix of Freud's pleasure principle and Nietzsche's will to power without any pretense of practicality, with voodoo and borderline sadism thrown in. Now THAT is kinda funny.