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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

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Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

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is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #31
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Only on that one thing though. Razz

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11-20-2012 11:55 PM
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Post: #32
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Her life, her choice.

Let's think of it this way: what if everyone had kids? A woman's uterus houses the eggs that becomes humans. For every period she has, she "denies" an egg potential life. So, "morally" for you moralfag pro-lifers, she HAS to make those eggs into humans. Do you realize how catastrophic that would be? We'd be overpopulated, resources like food would be gone, and everyone'd starve to death. Happy now, prolifefags?

Abortion ftw.

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Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

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Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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11-21-2012 12:17 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #33
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Being pro-life and being insane enough to insist that every single egg gets used to make a baby are two different things...

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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11-21-2012 04:15 AM
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Post: #34
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Right to do it,yes. Actually do it,no.

Congratulations humanity,because you refuse to let go of the old and evolve you actually make people believe in 2012. Not only that, but you're the only species on Earth that were able to make it possible, now we get to sit until we die because we couldn't get to Mars. We have failed as a society and don't deserve our gifts to survive for this long. Maybe this is why dinosaurs are extinct, we sure aren't any better than the dirt you say we're created from. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...DvwSOFto#! Noo

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11-21-2012 08:12 AM
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Post: #35
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-21-2012 04:15 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Being pro-life and being insane enough to insist that every single egg gets used to make a baby are two different things...

Not really. Its basically the same thing. I don't see why some egg with sperm on it is a human and therefore any different than a regular egg.

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Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

#HashTagsAreForIdiots

[Image: violator_blackbg_110x32.gif]
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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11-21-2012 08:34 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #36
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Pro-life: Preferring it if things don't get killed unnecessarily.
The other thing (not sure what to call it): Everything with even the slightest potential to become human must be given a chance, so everyone should fuck like rabbits...

You don't see a difference?

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Post: #37
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-21-2012 08:51 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Pro-life: Preferring it if things don't get killed unnecessarily.
The other thing (not sure what to call it): Everything with even the slightest potential to become human must be given a chance, so everyone should fuck like rabbits...

You don't see a difference?

No, they think that when a sperm and egg combine to be a zygote, said zygote is suddenly granted full human value and musn't be aborted. I'm here to say that it doesn't have consistency. If you reject the scenario I'm giving, it means you aren't following it through to its logical limits, and thus, pro-life is inconsistent within its own framework and the result of special pleading.

An egg with sperm is no different than an egg except for the sperm. it does not have human status. You cannot kill something that is not alive.

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TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!

Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

#HashTagsAreForIdiots

[Image: violator_blackbg_110x32.gif]
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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11-21-2012 09:01 AM
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Post: #38
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

nope because she should have taken the freken morning after pill you dont need a perscription once a baby is conformed it has HUMAN RIGHTS
11-21-2012 09:03 AM
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Post: #39
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

When does it become alive then? It grows gradually and at some point becomes human, when is this point according to you? As soon as it gets born? What about prematurely born babies, or ones that are cut out surgically?

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11-21-2012 09:04 AM
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Post: #40
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-21-2012 09:03 AM)Voluble Wrote:  nope because she should have taken the freken morning after pill you dont need a perscription once a baby is conformed it has HUMAN RIGHTS

lolwutno. Now its the mother's fault? Has it never crossed your mind perhaps teenagers are too scared to take such a procedure and confront their parents about it? What about poor women without access to money or medicine?

Quote:When does it become alive then?
Technically, we're all 'alive'; our cells are alive themselves. The point is, it doesn't matter if its alive or not, but rather, is it within the rights of the mother? Our cells are alive but you don't see people treating each and every one like a human. You scrape off cells regularly, and taking care of each would require not moving ever again.

Point is, it has rights once it's born. Once it exits the uterus as a birth.


Well like pro-lifers say; "The Sanctity of Life: It begins when you're conceived, ends at birth, and then starts again at brain death."

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TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!

Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

#HashTagsAreForIdiots

[Image: violator_blackbg_110x32.gif]
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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11-21-2012 09:15 AM
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IamNoone Offline
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Post: #41
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

^I was born two weeks late. With modern medicine, I could survive outside the womb bei born up to two months early. So you are saying it's ok to kill the baby when it's 8.5 months old?

I still say if it can survive outside the womb, it shouldn't be able to be killed. Also multiple non rape related abortions should result in castration because you are clearly to irresponsible to raise a kid if you can't remember to take your fucking pill.

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11-21-2012 10:49 AM
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Post: #42
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

"nope because she should have taken the freken morning after pill you dont need a perscription once a baby is conformed it has HUMAN RIGHTS"

it is a "human" in the biological sense but HUMAN RIGHTS does not include the right to suck nutrients from another human's blood from the inside of their body, because that can violate the human rights of the women. that's just self-contradicting paradoxicalism that don't make no sense you know what i'm saying?
11-21-2012 10:56 AM
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Post: #43
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

I have mixed feelings. I guess if she was raped then its okay. If possible, she should adopt it out and maybe be sedated during labor so she wont even see it. But then again, maybe the kid would have a bad life with her.
11-21-2012 12:18 PM
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Post: #44
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

it's not...even a baby. it can't even feel or think. why should it have the right TO violate the rights of a fully grown person?
11-21-2012 01:02 PM
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Post: #45
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

axxording what potato is saying, she can abort.
There are abortion survivors. If they survive, they can't sue the parents bcoz they were 'not real people'.
A baby has a beating heart around 5-8 weeks of pregnancy. They have blood, THEY HAVE A HEART. THEY LIVE.
Just bcoz you're in someone's belly doesn't mean that you're not alive.

Potato.
How would you feel if you were aborted? If you were given poison to kill you. And you survived. You couldn't go to the police and accuse the hospital og murder, because you weren't 'real'.

What and inspirational character you are Potato.

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Post: #46
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

"axxording what potato is saying, she can abort."

YOU DON'T SAY?! THAT'S SHOCKING

"There are abortion survivors. If they survive, they can't sue the parents bcoz they were 'not real people'."

that can't be true.

"A baby has a beating heart around 5-8 weeks of pregnancy. They have blood, THEY HAVE A HEART. THEY LIVE."

well yea

"Just bcoz you're in someone's belly doesn't mean that you're not alive."

lol i never even cared about if it was correct to define it as "living" so...i guess i'll just agree with that

"How would you feel if you were aborted? If you were given poison to kill you. And you survived. You couldn't go to the police and accuse the hospital og murder, because you weren't 'real'."

look up the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act

"What and inspirational character you are Potato."

lol now i'm glad i choose this username

but i admitt i never knew that it was possible to survive an abortion. that's just cruel and frightening
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2012 08:09 PM by Potato.)
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Post: #47
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Surviving abortions? Now that's scary. Link to source plox?

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11-21-2012 10:40 PM
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Post: #48
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Nevermind, I googled it. Razz

http://www.prlog.org/10198610-baby-surpr...rtion.html
Persistent little guy.

And there's plenty of disturbing stuff here:
http://theabortionsurvivors.com/failed-a...-informed/

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11-21-2012 10:44 PM
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Post: #49
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

ok you have no way of knowing if someone got pregnant "on purpose," or "by accident," (by broken condom or whatever means) so it's pointless to differentiate between those situations, and if you believe in the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" then anyone seeking abortion should be treated as if they didn't mean to get pregnant in the first place.

and failed abortions are unacceptable, do it twice if they have to, but that's a different issue
11-22-2012 01:11 AM
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Post: #50
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-21-2012 10:49 AM)IamNoone Wrote:  ^I was born two weeks late. With modern medicine, I could survive outside the womb bei born up to two months early. So you are saying it's ok to kill the baby when it's 8.5 months old?

You misunderstand me, sir. I said when it reaches birth then it has human rights. And when you exit the womb, then they are granted to you. I was saying its a women's right when it is still inside her body.

Even after that however it should still be a mother's right to abandon or refuse caring for a baby. (I'm more negative liberty oriented, not positive liberty oriented.)

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11-22-2012 03:13 AM
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4r4b7 Away
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Post: #51
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-21-2012 12:18 PM)SomeRandomHuman Wrote:  I have mixed feelings. I guess if she was raped then its okay. If possible, she should adopt it out and maybe be sedated during labor so she wont even see it. But then again, maybe the kid would have a bad life with her.

Why make the baby take a punishment of a rapist?

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11-22-2012 03:22 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #52
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

"Even after that however it should still be a mother's right to abandon or refuse caring for a baby. (I'm more negative liberty oriented, not positive liberty oriented."

i disagree. you can do whatever you want, as long as it does not directly inflict suffering upon another "intelligent" individual organism.
it disgusts me how people would just pump out babies regardless of the situation that they would be placed in. this may sound extreme, but i think that a couple should not have the right to produce a child without being able to GUARANTEE a good environment for it until adulthood. so basically, people in poverty should not have the right to bring children into being in their situation, because imo that is directly and knowingly inflicting pain and suffering upon another intelligent organism. That's an act of moral indifference for human well-being- at it's worst, and i think they should receive a forced abortion followed by a forced sterilization if necessary.

"Why make the baby take a punishment of a rapist?"

that's an informal fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question nobody is proposing it. the point is that, morally, the rights of the victim should bare far more importance than the cell growth that she carries, because she has a fully developed brain, which produces what religious people, i'm guessing that you are, interpret as the "soul." and you can't possibility say that a cell growth has anything to match that to be factored into a moral decision- without completely separating the idea of morality from the idea of maximizing conscious well-being
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2012 04:36 AM by Potato.)
11-22-2012 04:13 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #53
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

If life truly sucks as much as many of you believe it does, then abortion should be near-mandatory. Why force the unborn to suffer life?

(If you guys can't tell, I'm playing devil's advocate. I don't honestly believe what I just said.)

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11-22-2012 04:14 AM
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Post: #54
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-22-2012 03:22 AM)4r4b7 Wrote:  
(11-21-2012 12:18 PM)SomeRandomHuman Wrote:  I have mixed feelings. I guess if she was raped then its okay. If possible, she should adopt it out and maybe be sedated during labor so she wont even see it. But then again, maybe the kid would have a bad life with her.

Why make the baby take a punishment of a rapist?

Why hold onto a constant, painful and traumatic reminder of their ordeal? Why if the person never wanted to be a mother in the first place? Why if they can't bare to hold onto their attacker's child (or children) for nine whole months? Psychological pain from their ordeal for the rest of their lives is enough for me.

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(This post was last modified: 11-22-2012 04:44 AM by Miller0700.)
11-22-2012 04:41 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-22-2012 04:14 AM)DoA Wrote:  If life truly sucks as much as many of you believe it does, then abortion should be near-mandatory. Why force the unborn to suffer life?

You're twisting things into a strawman.

(11-22-2012 04:14 AM)DoA Wrote:  (If you guys can't tell, I'm playing devil's advocate. I don't honestly believe what I just said.)

Then why say it?

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11-22-2012 04:43 AM
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Post: #56
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Why not say it? People have said much more ludicrous things in this thread already. Laugh

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11-22-2012 06:23 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Yeah, but they meant it.

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11-22-2012 06:39 AM
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Post: #58
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

I think women should be allowed to have abortions. I'd rather the child never be born and feel no pain dying than have the child be born and have a bad life because honestly it's hard to be a good mother if you really don't want/can't afford the child.
11-22-2012 10:31 AM
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Post: #59
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-22-2012 03:13 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  
(11-21-2012 10:49 AM)IamNoone Wrote:  ^I was born two weeks late. With modern medicine, I could survive outside the womb bei born up to two months early. So you are saying it's ok to kill the baby when it's 8.5 months old?

You misunderstand me, sir. I said when it reaches birth then it has human rights. And when you exit the womb, then they are granted to you. I was saying its a women's right when it is still inside her body.

Even after that however it should still be a mother's right to abandon or refuse caring for a baby. (I'm more negative liberty oriented, not positive liberty oriented.)
You actually misunderstood me because I worde it wrong.
What I was trying to say is that "so you think it's ok to kill a baby when it has been in the womb for 8.5 months and it can survive outside of the womb despite the fact that ithas not been born yet?"
And honestly if you don't want the fucker after it's born don't abandon it, the mother should at least give it away or give it to an adoption center.

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11-23-2012 11:53 AM
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Post: #60
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

She can do whatever the fuck she wants. It's her fucking decision. My only judgments about abortion is that there should be way more in the world going on. But I'm not certified with the equipment that a woman has, so it doesn't fucking matter what I think. I'm not going to talk to an electrician about what I think their ethical values should be when it comes to things specific to their field. Though that might be easier, because I don't run the risk of impregnating any electricians for the time being.

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11-24-2012 12:29 AM
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