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A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

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Weswammy Offline
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Post: #1
A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

So, I'm reading The Declaration of Independents, written by some libertarian journalists over at Reason.com that you've probably never heard of, when something absolutely stunning dawns on me. You see, one of the main premises of the book is that the underlying culture drives political change while politics is just playing catch-up.

So I'm thinking, why are we trying to create political change when it isn't time for political change yet? That's like putting the cart before the horse, or going to the elite four before beating all 8 gym leaders. It just doesn't work like that.

While the book gives a few examples, I think the most pertinent example is that of the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia. The revolution was named after the Velvet Underground band, an American band, that was censored behind the Iron Curtain. People that liked rock and roll were being jailed for partaking in Western cultural decadence (my favorite kind) and long hair was illegal. The culture moved the politics, not the other way around. People just got fed up with oppression and the transition was made from totalitarianism to capitalism. The political dissidents were there to guide them to the finish line, but the cultural deviants made the engine inside the stock car and provided the fuel.

So, I'm not saying that political theory isn't important when accomplishing change, or that effective political organization isn't key. However, I feel like we're skipping a major step, or at least that most of us are focusing our energies where they need not be.

What does this have to do with us and an end to compulsory schooling? Everything. Admit it, most people don't want to read 'zines that have political talk and jargon in them, especially fucking teenagers. Most of us here don't even want to write those publications, we have better things to do. This has been pointed out many times by naysayers as a reason that we will fail, but is it?

I'm of the opinion that the best thing to do is to turn weaknesses into strengths and stop swimming against the current.

I say we rethink our shit about what we want to do. I don't really have the answer, nor do I care to be the almighty guy that gives the answer on what needs to be done, but I think there is an answer. One of you might have it. Each of you might have pieces to the puzzle. I'm hoping what I'm writing here will inspire somebody to think outside the bounds of political action and into the realm of living life as a deviant, a mutant that by his very existence confounds the status quo.

So, go out there and fuck shit up.

RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS

[Image: NxoieDh.png]

"Hey kids I'm a crocodile, so head over to Dark n Edgy!"
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03-08-2012 09:19 AM
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Story and Myth Offline
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Post: #2
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

Hmm, so ideals push political change- that makes sense, I guess.
I think our #1 goal should be getting the word out that school is bad. Most parents forget what it was like in school, and assume children are going through some sort of mashup between their nostalgic memories and a few half-watched episodes of iCarly. They should really be watching Phineas and Ferb, specifically, this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5GCe_0wVac
because places like the Smile Away Reform School really exist. I'm not even kidding- check out Synanon, the Seed, Straight Incorporated, WWASP, or KIDS, and you'll find some horror stories.
Parents need to see that school is, in some cases, harmful, and even fatal, like in the cases of Aaron Bacon, Michelle Sutton, Kristen Chase, Paul Richards... and many more. Now, most of these are private schools, or wilderness camps, not public schools, but there's plenty of evidence of the harmful effects of public schooling on this very website. And if more adults knew that, and cared enough to change it, it would change.

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and nights of misery have been assigned to me.
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Both of my parents are teachers. My body is bound, but my mind is free.
03-08-2012 01:17 PM
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The Shadowman Offline
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Post: #3
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

So you mean that we must first start a cultural movement before we attempt to abolish school? Sounds like an excellent idea!

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03-08-2012 04:16 PM
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Efs Offline
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Post: #4
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

You can't do shit in politics. You can't change the system to end compulsory schooling.

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
03-08-2012 05:12 PM
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Weswammy Offline
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Post: #5
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-08-2012 04:16 PM)The Shadowman Wrote:  So you mean that we must first start a cultural movement before we attempt to abolish school? Sounds like an excellent idea!
Basically. Politics do not drive society, it's the other way around. That's the theory anyway.

RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS

[Image: NxoieDh.png]

"Hey kids I'm a crocodile, so head over to Dark n Edgy!"
>─────▄████▀█▄
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03-09-2012 12:24 AM
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The Shadowman Offline
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Post: #6
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-09-2012 12:24 AM)Weswammy Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 04:16 PM)The Shadowman Wrote:  So you mean that we must first start a cultural movement before we attempt to abolish school? Sounds like an excellent idea!
Basically. Politics do not drive society, it's the other way around. That's the theory anyway.
Okay. If we want our revolution, we need to start a cultural movement. Maybe something like Occupy Wall Street, only something that has clearer goals and isn't afraid to take some form of action?

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03-09-2012 03:38 AM
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Weswammy Offline
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Post: #7
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

I do not mean something like Occupy. That is most definitely a political movement.

In fact, I don't even know if a movement would be the right name for it or if we can even do anything

RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS

[Image: NxoieDh.png]

"Hey kids I'm a crocodile, so head over to Dark n Edgy!"
>─────▄████▀█▄
>───▄█████████████████▄
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03-09-2012 05:42 AM
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The Shadowman Offline
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Post: #8
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-09-2012 05:42 AM)Weswammy Wrote:  I do not mean something like Occupy. That is most definitely a political movement.

In fact, I don't even know if a movement would be the right name for it or if we can even do anything
Well, what about inspiring other people by using several forms of media to communicate our ideology?

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03-09-2012 06:36 AM
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Weswammy Offline
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Post: #9
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-09-2012 06:36 AM)The Shadowman Wrote:  
(03-09-2012 05:42 AM)Weswammy Wrote:  I do not mean something like Occupy. That is most definitely a political movement.

In fact, I don't even know if a movement would be the right name for it or if we can even do anything
Well, what about inspiring other people by using several forms of media to communicate our ideology?
I mean, that's cool if you want to do that, but that's not what I had in mind. I'm not speaking ideology, but more about a change in the culture or the invention of a subculture or some sort of a mostly non-ideological and non-political movement that completely contrasts with the values of the current school system and could very well undermine the current school system.

To name one, unschooling. There's also homeschooling. We could probably think of ways to incorporate parts of these movements into our lives that would undermine the authority of current schools.

RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS

[Image: NxoieDh.png]

"Hey kids I'm a crocodile, so head over to Dark n Edgy!"
>─────▄████▀█▄
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03-09-2012 07:37 AM
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Reptorian Offline
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Post: #10
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

There is already a website devoted to doing this kind of stuff, URL is edfreedom.org

Too bad, this movement and political thing is going to get killed for too many reason.

ZZZ...
03-09-2012 10:00 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

But that's getting nowhere since people don't have the time, effort nor the motivation to keep it alive.

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03-09-2012 10:18 AM
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Absentinsomniac Offline
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Post: #12
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

That's pretty interesting... I'd like to read up on this a bit more, if I ever get some damn time.

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03-09-2012 03:55 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #13
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

I think the most major thing holding us back is that a large portion of adults think of kids as idiots, troublemakers and generally ungrateful brats. This would need to change before anything else can. Or maybe it will change in the process of us changing other things... I am unsure.

... I say 'us' even though I'm not a kid anymore. Laugh You get the idea though.

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03-09-2012 07:41 PM
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Weswammy Offline
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Post: #14
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

Maybe we should give older people what they want? Maybe we should be more inflammatory and comically anti-adult than Abbie Hoffman. The creation of tension and intergenerational conflict could potentially work.

But I am just throwing ideas around and anything we could do is supplemental to what is already happening. In the US, homeschooling is a growing minority. In fact, the creation of a hostile environ in more affluent and Christian lily white area public schools could potentially aid the movement of scared parents to homeschooling and private schools.

But is that the goal? A lot of people here are more radical than I am and are anti-traditional education period. Plus, home schooling is not always an improvement in every individual case.

What I am trying to get at is that we need to co-opt existing trends and not fight the cultural current or try to use politics to create our own current. That is why any efforts are, largely, unsuccessful.

RIP GORE GOROTH
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[Image: NxoieDh.png]

"Hey kids I'm a crocodile, so head over to Dark n Edgy!"
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03-10-2012 12:38 AM
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Ami Offline
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Post: #15
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

I like the idea of Influencing others through a life style. It doesn't do any harm to also be involved in whatever movement supports the abolishment of school, but it's important our personal lives reflect that. If I get a degree, it's gonna be in democratic education. I recently discovered such a thing exists in my country. I also researched and visited democratic schools where I live.
It was actually a great deal of fun and the population that studied there exceeded my expectations of how awesome humans can be if they're not left to rot in your typical coercive school. That helped alot to get my own parents convinced I may be right.

I'm trying to promote the end of forced schooling like this, little things. I argue people about it, have several friends convinced, and i have a blog, WWW://Fixing-Education.com (apologies for shameless publication). Little things.

What I'm getting at is that you're probably right, it's easier to make a change if we live what we believe in and people see the positive results.
03-19-2012 06:33 PM
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RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

I seriously doubt that (at least in America) alternative schooling or new ideas will gain even the slightest foothold before the school system collapses.

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03-20-2012 02:41 PM
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Absentinsomniac Offline
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Post: #17
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

^ Lol, the school system isn't going to collapse. (Unless the U.S collapses, that is.) Or if we have some sort of revolution in the next couple of months. Or something.

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03-20-2012 11:50 PM
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gore goroth Offline
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Post: #18
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-20-2012 11:50 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  ^ Lol, the school system isn't going to collapse. (Unless the U.S collapses, that is.) Or if we have some sort of revolution in the next couple of months. Or something.

It could be another 50 years or so. But it will happen.
03-21-2012 02:28 AM
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Weswammy Offline
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RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-20-2012 02:41 PM)Sapphire Flames Wrote:  I seriously doubt that (at least in America) alternative schooling or new ideas will gain even the slightest foothold before the school system collapses.
Alternative schooling ideas have already gained a foothold. Homeschoolers are a growing segment of the population. There is a pretty large conservative and libertarian group that supports vouchers and school choice.

(03-20-2012 11:50 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  ^ Lol, the school system isn't going to collapse. (Unless the U.S collapses, that is.) Or if we have some sort of revolution in the next couple of months. Or something.
There were integral members of the pro-democracy efforts during the collapse Soviet Union in the Eastern bloc that never would have thought the Evil Empire would have collapsed just a year before it collapsed.

Take a looksee at this: http://reason.com/archives/2012/01/29/beyond-duopoly

EDIT:
That article I linked Wrote:When asked in August 1989, only a few months after the electrifying demonstrations in Tiananmen Square, whether the communist East Bloc would ever be democratic and free in his lifetime, Czech economist Vàclav Klaus said no. Less than five months later, he was the first finance minister of a free Czechoslovakia.
...
You may have heard of confirmation bias, whereby people choose to notice and believe whatever rumors, news stories, and quasi-academic studies confirm their basic worldview. Well, get your mind around existence bias, where the mere fact of a person’s, business’s, political party’s, or country’s existence is taken as unspoken and unchallenged proof that the same entity will exist in largely the same form tomorrow, the next day, the next month, the next decade, forever and ever, amen. This despite the fact that the Western world, and the United States in particular, stands out in the history of Homo sapiens as the most vigorous producer of constant, dynamic change.

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"Hey kids I'm a crocodile, so head over to Dark n Edgy!"
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(This post was last modified: 03-21-2012 07:18 AM by Weswammy.)
03-21-2012 06:56 AM
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Post: #20
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

In Bulgaria we have 100 homeschoolers

And maybe 1 million regular students

Homeschooling is soo popular.
03-21-2012 06:58 AM
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Weswammy Offline
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RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-21-2012 06:58 AM)bulgvar666 Wrote:  In Bulgaria we have 100 homeschoolers

And maybe 1 million regular students

Homeschooling is soo popular.

Not talking 'bout Bulgarian, talkin' 'bout 'merica.

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03-21-2012 07:13 AM
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Absentinsomniac Offline
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Post: #22
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

Sure, but public education isn't a company or a political party, and it's been around for hundreds of years. I doubt it will fall apart anywhere near quickly. It has a steady income of compulsory income and customers, and pretty much everyone thinks it's necessary. Sure, it may change soon, and I may be wrong, but I don't think the government or the public will let it change until a better alternative is presented and is proven.

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03-21-2012 07:42 AM
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Post: #23
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-21-2012 07:42 AM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  Sure, but public education isn't a company or a political party, and it's been around for hundreds of years. I doubt it will fall apart anywhere near quickly. It has a steady income of compulsory income and customers, and pretty much everyone thinks it's necessary. Sure, it may change soon, and I may be wrong, but I don't think the government or the public will let it change until a better alternative is presented and is proven.
That's sort of the point of this thread, to state that we should go out and "be the change we want to see in the world", prove that alternative methods work, and erode the outer edges of the compulsory schooling island. The idea is that the deviation and personalization of our education (and the rest of our lives, for that matter) will inevitably create a change that mere political methods could never accomplish.

In other words, people starting alternative schools or homeschooling their kids are the people that are making real change. People that are petitioning Washington are only going to bust down the wall after it's already been structurally weakened by the people that made cultural change. I'm not trying to say political change isn't important, but it isn't the main driver. It should be put into perspective.

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RIP SAINTVICIOUS

[Image: NxoieDh.png]

"Hey kids I'm a crocodile, so head over to Dark n Edgy!"
>─────▄████▀█▄
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03-21-2012 07:49 AM
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Absentinsomniac Offline
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Post: #24
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

I think you're probably right, then. Even if we prove to Washington that it's the right thing to do, unless the public is largely on our side, we won't win. Teachers (and their interests groups) would never let it happen, even if we did appeal to their wishes for a more open and free teaching environment.

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03-21-2012 07:54 AM
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RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-21-2012 07:54 AM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  I think you're probably right, then. Even if we prove to Washington that it's the right thing to do, unless the public is largely on our side, we won't win. Teachers (and their interests groups) would never let it happen, even if we did appeal to their wishes for a more open and free teaching environment.
Precisely.
I think the most constructive thing that could come out of this website would be if some of the members got together and started a school. When they're older, of course.

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RIP SAINTVICIOUS

[Image: NxoieDh.png]

"Hey kids I'm a crocodile, so head over to Dark n Edgy!"
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(This post was last modified: 03-21-2012 08:01 AM by Weswammy.)
03-21-2012 08:01 AM
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Post: #26
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

That'd be interesting, although I'm sure we'd have to have some sort of certifications.

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03-21-2012 08:04 AM
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Weswammy Offline
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Post: #27
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

(03-21-2012 08:04 AM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  That'd be interesting, although I'm sure we'd have to have some sort of certifications.

Let's all be teachers, then. Lol.
We'd have to raise capital, hash out ideas. It wouldn't be easy and it would be a long term career goal for people.

But even if just one person here became a teacher and that person ended up getting out of the mainstream school system as soon as they could and helped start some sort of alternative institution, it'd be great.

RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS

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03-21-2012 08:08 AM
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Absentinsomniac Offline
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Post: #28
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

I'll probably get a teaching degree at some point, although probably not right away. That'd be pretty awesome, though. Keep in mind, however, that there are numerous democratic schools out there, and that'd be a good place to start. There's already a semi-big movement at our feet, it just needs to gain mass appeal.

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03-21-2012 08:38 AM
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The Offline
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Post: #29
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

I would be the most badass teacher ever. I don't wanna be one tho. I do wanna be a father. Unschool my kids, teach them to question what they hear, etc. Little SS soldiers

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03-21-2012 11:06 AM
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Efs Offline
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Post: #30
RE: A Treatise: We've been going about this shit all wrong.

I'd love to teach kids but I'd have to be a good actor to "fit in" with the school staff.

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
03-21-2012 02:59 PM
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