Enough is Enough

[mrtuesday]

Fire Elf Wrote:Most of which I will never use in my life.

ed⋅u⋅ca⋅tion
   /ˌɛdʒʊˈkeɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ej-oo-key-shuhn]
–noun
1. the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life.

Regardless of whether you think that you'll use it, it's better for people to be at least familiar with these topics rather than live in ignorance of them. According to you, a sixth grader should be fully able to elect the next president because he knows grammar. These topics aren't required to live a better life, but I hardly think that anyone here will contend that they don't enhance one. What's wrong with an education that goes above and beyond the bare minimum?

BobManPerson Wrote:Killjoy, I want to ask you something - how is it your business what people do with their lives? Why do you want people to do what you want them to do so badly?

Also, how much of that stuff you mentioned in your list do you think you will remember when you're 30?

The bottom line is that this website's message is to paint yourself as a scapegoat, a victim. School is not bad. Go live in Darfur for a few years, then you'll understand how fortunate you are. When I see people effectively throwing their lives away in the vain hopes that they will be able to educate themselves better than a building and its numerous faculty members who are being paid to teach you the skills you'll need as an adult, I get angry. Especially when you consider that the bad things you claim are so common in schools are few and far between.

As for "durr u won remember this lolol," it's largely irrelevant. Why go learn how to fly an airplane, you'll probably just forget it in twenty years. Why go to school and become a doctor, do you think you'll be able to do a double heart bypass when you're eighty five?

Pieman Wrote:Let me ask you something Killjoy - how many of those subjects will you use in your future career/are you using in your career now?

You seem like a person who has lost the sight of why school is such hell to all of us (including you) through the years. Did you forget the..

Abusive students?
Bullying?
Sick pranks?
[corporal?] teachers?
Lies and Slander?

Why bother teaching children Math, what if they become plumbers? Same with English, they might move out of country. We can beat around the bush as much as you'd like, the fact remains that people need to be informed about a wide range of subjects, the more the better.

As for the second paragraph, I hope you aren't serious. Pranks? Lies and slander? Bullying? These things are not consequences of the school system itself, they're consequences of our society. Don't blame the schools, blame the people in them.

Rebelnerd Wrote:No, they don't. There's a big difference between saying something and making it a reality. If we still have all our constitutional rights, how come they can search our lockers (and bodies) without a warrant? How come they only need "reasonable suspicion" instead of probable cause? How come they can circumvent many of these Constitutional technicalities by saying that something "disrupts the learning environment?" Why is some student art and expression censored and/or punished for its "violent" or "inappropriate" themes?

Unwarranted search and seizure and censorship are unspeakably stupid, but they're due to everyone's paranoia about safety ever since 9/11 and not because schools are concentration camps. There are some circumstances that school personnel do foolish things, but again you're attacking the wrong problem. By attending a school you are acquiescing to their terms of service in exchange for an education. Even the faculty can sometimes be misguided in their attempt to provide said education, but no one is perfect.

Rebelnerd Wrote:In regards to them not putting a gun to our heads, let's not forget truant officers. Students are being forced, and not every parent will let their kid homeschool, which just reinforces what I've been saying: this isn't just about the way students are treated, it's about they way they can be treated. Whether teachers or parents or whoever holds the reins, students have literally no power over their own lives and that is asking for abuse.

Students are not fully equipped to totally control their lives when they're young. They need guidance. It's foolish to decry schools for teaching people. Oh you poor rebels, being taught life skills that you need to earn a living and not end up on the street homeless and alone. School is a privilege.

Rebelnerd Wrote:Yes, people are asked to conform a little. But there are also checks and balances put into place so that the conformity never goes beyond what is necessary for a functional society. My own personal beliefs regarding anarchism vs. organized society aside, students have no checks. If school authorities overstep their bounderies, there is nothing they can do.
And I agree with you about the informed populace. But let's also keep in mind that every, and I mean every, dictator or authoritarian regime in the history of humanity has used schools as a way to control the populace. Control over what the new generation learns is just too much power for the government to have. For anybody to have, frankly.

The difference is that in America today, our thankfully secular schools are actually teaching children, and doing a better job than any of you will recognize. Curricula are decided by well-credentialed educators with years of experience. Not the Illuminati.

Rebelnerd Wrote:Well hell, they're not going to stand up on the roof and shout about the flaws in their system. No corrupt institution is going to mention the corruption in their mission statement! What was the point of posting this?

You're still making the mistake of assuming that they're corrupt. This entire website is founded on a Composition fallacy wrapped in a lie.

Rebelnerd Wrote:You know, one of the best ways to make a person hate something is to force it on them. In most countries, kids would give anything for an education. They want to learn. But as soon as you tell someone that they're either going to accept this "right" or a truant officer with a gun will come to their house and handcuff them, suddenly their not so enthusiastic. It's called simple human dignity. Kids didn't object to learning, they objected to having the choice taken away from them. It's easy to imagine that frustration gradually morphing into anger directed at education in general. Using school to solve a problem that it caused won't do anything but create an insane loop where the students always lose.

It's a catch-22. Kids are motivated to learn in the first place, but today there are so many things to know in order to function in society that they need a sense of direction. Without this overlying guidance, they would not become informed enough to elect their leaders. So the leaders decide to force kids to learn. It's not nearly as draconian as you and the others on this website like to hyperbolize.

The Avenger Wrote:Anyone else notice that on the huge list of shit that 98% you'd forget by the time you're 30 and YOU COULD LEARN BY YOURSELF was repeated several times to try and reinforce his pathetic theory?

Oh, and about the box thing that BMP mentioned: What if everyone around you (government included) said it was good? If you ever protested you were immediately labeled "troubled" and "defiant"? If you had to go home where it's only reinforced because they know NO other way? I WILL CONTINUE THIS POST BELOW.

Huge list of shit? Get over yourself. Everyone says that it's good because it actually is good, not because they're part of fucking MK-ULTRA. You're surrounded by a bubble of delusion.

Faby Wrote:Well, I think we should agree on some terms:

-Killjoy likes school and thinks it's a functional way of getting education.
-The rest of us don't.

It's pretty much useless for us to try to change his opinions, as are his attempts to change ours. We have our own personal and impersonal reasons to argue our side of the story, and he has his.

No-one ever said that everybody has to hate school. For some, school works and is a viable way towards acquiring education. But the real problem here is that the school system doesn't allow us to follow any alternatives, and imposes itself on us as the ONLY way of getting educated. That's the problem. We can't choose, and that is the hugest flaw in this already fucked up system.

The problem is, school is the best method of education. It's not perfect, by any means, but it's as close as we can get. Students and educators working in conjunction to prepare themselves for the future. It's presented as the only way of getting educated because, believe it or not, those "brainwashed" adults know what they're talking about. It's an opportunity, and if you don't seize it you're doing yourself a disservice.