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"Libertarianism is fascism"
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Ahab
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"Libertarianism is fascism"
Quote:Then the Libertarians you claim to support definitely fall into the Conservative class.
Classical Liberalism is a dead ideology not applicable to the modern world. So called "Libertarianism" we see today is nothing more than fascism's attempt to re-emerge after the beating it took in the forties.
The evidence speaks for itself. Von Mises was a fully paid up member of Austria's fascist Government in the thirties acting as chief adviser to the Minister Of Finance and with access to the whole Cabinet. He also maintained links with with fascist and white supremist groups until his death.
In more modern examples people like Charles Murray and almost certainly Anthony Flew are white supremists. And of couurse during the eighties the central campaign that Libertarians, especially here, but to an extent in America, took part in, was to drop all sanctions against South Africa and support Apartheid, something many claimed was the only way of keeping southern Africa "civilised"
Milton Friedman trained the economists that implemented dictatorship across Latin America and especially Chile and supported said Dictatorships (something Hayek meanwhile cvlaimed was preferable to Democracy), he also enjoyed a rather strange relationship with the Chinese government and lets not forget praised Hong Kong style dictatorship as just about the ideal form of Government.
Who next? Marray Rothbard! In a long rant against feminism he says Feminism are responsible for the two worst things to happen to America, these apparently being Women's Sufferage and the outlawing of child's labour. He also claims feminists are simply sexually frustrated Jewish Lesbians. You can find this rant on the Ludwig Von Mises Institute webite amongst other places.
Speaking of said institute, they have an interesting example of an idealised form of Government. It is not the United States, Hong Kong or even Pinochet's Chile. It is, um, Somalia. Apparently the absence of Government and rule by brutal warlords is an example of the free market in action and guaranteeing freedom. Ho hum
As for Libertarian parties. Well the one in the United States showed how much it valued democracy by refusing to consider democratic reform like proportional representation. New Zealand is unlucky enough to have two such parties. The smaller Libertarianz are mostly nutty followers of the fascist Ayn Rand. Thelarger ACT Liberals with a couple of seats in Parliament (down from a peak of seven) are mostly based around the notion that freedom is basically the Government not investigating business corruption. They also have a sideline in campaigning for sweeping police powers and opposition to gay rights. The UK equivalent UKIP (which says it is a Libertarian party) is essentially just for middle class racists who consider the BNP beneath them. Certainly most of their policies are about closing Britain off from the rest of the world and expelling "foreigners".
So lets not claim Libertarianism is anything other than it is, eh?
Discussssssssssssssss
this guy claims libertarianism is fascism i think some of the austrian school cats were supremacists and dumb but i think the principle remains the same imo.
"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit." - Robert Anton Wilson
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09-21-2007 12:40 PM |
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That is pretty retarded. That's a lot coming from me considering I am against libertarian capitalism. Fascism is a specific political system which neither libertarianism nor liberalism leads to.
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09-21-2007 12:43 PM |
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thewake
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Daang. This guy's understanding is, just, not right. Somebody needs to try to be a little more tolerant and read a few things prolibertarian. I know I've read things procommunism and proevolution. Looking into the eyes of the people who believe something that seems insane to you can really help make you a more tolerant and respectful person. This guy is clearly lacking respect and and tolerance. Whatever, this guy has the right to freely post it on the Internet. He owes that to some classic liberals.
Irony, eh?
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09-21-2007 01:03 PM |
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Ahab
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As it turns out (I was reading), Ludwig von mises was a jew who escaped clutches of nazism.
"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit." - Robert Anton Wilson
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09-21-2007 01:07 PM |
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thewake
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That is funny. I don't mean the irony funny, I mean the LMAO funny.
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09-21-2007 01:11 PM |
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Ahab
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The guys a fucking moron. He's calling property rights non-liberal now.
"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit." - Robert Anton Wilson
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09-22-2007 10:20 AM |
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thewake
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Where is he? Is there a website? If there is I'm itching to read it and laugh at his retardedness.
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09-22-2007 11:23 AM |
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Ahab
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http://www.gyuk.co.uk/forums/index.php? ... ntry521631
That thread. If your parents hate queers, make sure to adblock the opening logo, or at least skip down from it immediately once the page loads.
The people on that board are so far to the new left, its ridiculous. I would have argued with him fully but i honestly didnt care so i gave up kinda halfway. The guy obviously is talking out of his ass thinking the UK can decentralize its government and maintain a market economy without turning fascist. I hope you enjoy my sarcastic appraisal of his debating skills.
I mean, I don't agree with a lot of people here on political issues (weswammy is an exception of course), but at least the people here are intelligent enough to know that libertarianism is not corporatism.
"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit." - Robert Anton Wilson
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09-22-2007 11:57 AM |
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thewake
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I don't have a username and I'm not about to associate with this site and have parents snooping at every corner. I can't see it, and since I can't... Oh well!
My parents don't hate gays, they're just not too receptive of them and it doesn't help they are people who voted for Bush twice and still support him and nearly every move he's made. They are what you'd call, Red-Meat Conservatives. My mom wasn't too keen on me being Libertarian minded at first, but my dad seems to think it's good to form an opinion and my mom has went along with him.
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09-22-2007 12:03 PM |
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returnal
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Oh now i'm mad. I'm a Libertarian my self, so that means I support Adolf Hitler?
Whatever.
woah dude
dude woah
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10-06-2007 06:51 AM |
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Ahab
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Newtown Wrote:Oh now i'm mad. I'm a Libertarian my self, so that means I support Adolf Hitler?
Whatever.
He's making the same argument Hayek made about fucking communism, I swear.
Hayek said that communism will always spiral into fascism, and this guys rehashing it. Only difference is libertarian market economics can work very well if such is applied in a well adjusted setting.
"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit." - Robert Anton Wilson
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10-07-2007 01:28 PM |
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thewake
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The whole Libertarian economic principle is to have as little government interference as possible.
My take: What I see as needed interference are Health, Safety, and Environmental Protection laws, but Government actually makes a whole lot of the bad stuff that goes into the air, water, and earth. Government needs to get clean too you know.
And that argument about communism is valid to a point, all governments have the tendency to spiral into something bad. We have to limit government. I see nothing really wrong with communism, I just can't see it be worked out on a large scale.
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10-08-2007 05:13 AM |
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Halla
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Maybe a hundred years from now, someone will look at one of us and say "Look, he supported atheism!", because they were able to make some super-powerful astro-cosmo telescopeamajigger which got a picture of God. I don't care about the person; I care about their ideas.
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10-14-2007 08:07 AM |
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