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One simple and easy change schools can make. - Printable Version

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One simple and easy change schools can make. - SoulRiser - 05-08-2009 01:30 AM

I have a proposition. How would you (all of you) feel if schools stayed EXACTLY the same as they are now, except for one addition:

Anyone, at any age, and at any time whatsoever (EDIT: on second thought, having them once a year is probably more practical), is free to take the final high school graduation exam, without attending any classes in that school whatsoever before that point, or having any previous requirements (like years passed or whatever). They can just get a list somewhere of everything that the exam will cover, and it'll be up to them to make sure they can pass. That way people who have the means and motivation to study all that stuff for the final exam can do so at their own pace, in whichever way suits them best, be that by themselves, with their parents, a tutor, different classes, whatever, and then they just take the exam. Either with everyone else their age, or a few years early, or a few years late, whichever works best for them and their particular family/household/situation/whatever.

That way homeschoolers can get a regular high school diploma if they want (if they can't already, I don't know), and the GED will be replaced with this and there'll be no need for two seperate things that are almost identical. And people who drop out won't be harassed so much by people saying "But you need the diploma!!", 'cause they can just say "Well, yeah, I'm still gonna get it". Either that or "I already have it". Shrug

If this idea gets implemented, the kids who have parents who are totally opposed to alternatives can at least attempt to graduate early. And hey, I can't imagine any parent having a problem with that. "OMG my kid graduated early, he's such a genius!!!!"... or something.

Thoughts?


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - Faby - 05-08-2009 01:35 AM

That's genius. But why would they want that? Not the parents, the system.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - Sunbourn - 05-08-2009 01:39 AM

They aren't going to do that. They want to keep you the full 12 years so they can complete the brainwashing.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - SoulRiser - 05-08-2009 01:58 AM

Here's the thing though. Most people aren't in on that "brainwashing" scheme, if anyone alive today even still is. That was inspired by Prussia. I can't imagine any teachers opposing the idea. Well, actually, I can. I just remembered that in the US, schools get government money based on student attendance. So they wouldn't want to change that indeed. However, if enough parents supported the idea... Scratchchin


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - Faby - 05-08-2009 02:12 AM

...which they won't, mostly because the teachers would all be: "Oh, but they won't know a thing! That's why they need to go to school for 12 years, to learn!". Well, I may be antagonizing teachers more than necessary, but how'd they get their salaries if all students could pass the exams, just like that?

If one fairly young person managed to pass the exams, then I don't see why they would deny the proof before them. But in order for that to happen, it must be possible for kids to take the exams. It's a bit of a circle.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - xcriteria - 05-08-2009 03:00 AM

Yeah, that would be great. Even if it also included things like essays, or graded assignments, if the pace was up to you, that would be perfect. It could even be offered on a per-class basis, in case you wanted to take some classes in-school while challenging a bunch of others.

(There is the GED, of course, which in some states you can be pretty young to take.)


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - SoulRiser - 05-08-2009 03:46 AM

I think quite a reasonable amount of parents would actually go for the idea. Not all would, but after a while if enough of them do support it, the others will see that it works just fine and may become more open to the idea. Basically the point would be that the kid can choose when to take the final exam. He/she just signs up somewhere at school, shows up, takes the test, and gets the results later on. If he/she passes, yay, no more school. If not, ah well, there's always next time. There is really no logical reason for school to take up 12 years other than to make people get used to being bored and having a shitty routine every day. Some people even admit that, and then even go all "that's why it's good for you!"... lol


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - Faby - 05-08-2009 03:52 AM

What would matter is also how frequently you can retake an exam if you fail it. If you can take it this week, and retake it the next... Well... I dunno, maybe I'm too biased, but I really can't see that as being any good for the schools.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - SoulRiser - 05-08-2009 04:25 AM

Yeah, I suppose the "value" of the diploma would go down. Then again, its value is based purely on perception as it is anyway.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - xcriteria - 05-08-2009 04:27 AM

I agree that most parents would go for something like that if the school actually offered it. A test can only evaluate so much, though. Can you complete a project? Can you research things and write a paper? They would probably want a more rigorous evaluation than just a test. But whatever the evaluation is, it would be awesome if it could be taken at any time.

In a broader sense, this relates to my belief that there should be more of a separation between instruction and evaluation. In most classes, the teacher and evaluator are the same person, and you have to accept whatever instructional process they impose, before you even have the opportunity for evaluation. You should be able to choose any instructional process you wish (teachers, tutors, self-study, videos, online classes, computer-based instruction.) And whatever institution that awards credit should make it their job to evaluate that learning. You have to do some evaluation in order to teach, but why must the two always tied together? (Same issue with college.)


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - classclown - 05-08-2009 04:35 AM

the proplem as i see it is that they would still want you taking classes. so say you blow of school work youd get in trouble and they would make it so you cant take the exam/test thing.

also parent would not go for it. im saying this when i know mine would be for it. you just get all them in the mindset that you need the 12 years, you need the college. it would be near impossible to convince them to accept it.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - xcriteria - 05-08-2009 04:43 AM

Getting an official high school diploma and then either going to college or getting in some other kind of learning program (or working toward a credential) would probably mean something to most parents.

Maybe there could be a program in school for people who passed the test but want to learn further things, and the school would provide some funding or at least a place to work without the typical rules and attendance requirements? Or maybe that'd be a new type of non-school place. Some kind of opportunity for interacting with other people would make the experience a lot better, whatever it was exactly, plus get parents to give it more credit in their mind.

The biggest thing though for most parents is them believing whatever you're doing will lead to a steady, decent job.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - random_name - 05-08-2009 06:40 AM

Sorry, thick little me in the corner, but would that mean you wouldn't have to attend class as long as you educated yourself, or had alternative education? Because even that seems too good to be true.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - classclown - 05-08-2009 06:41 AM

the bigest proplem is your going through the school still. and i can see them making it so you have to be this and do that to get it.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - random_name - 05-08-2009 06:43 AM

I doubt the government would actually go for this. Because the students may actually learn something *gasp* useful.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - classclown - 05-08-2009 06:46 AM

random_name Wrote:I doubt the government would actually go for this. Because the students may actually learn something *gasp* useful.

not so sure really. it would still me regulated by the goverment. so we would have to study what they wanted to pass it.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - random_name - 05-08-2009 06:53 AM

I didn't mean that. I meant we may learn something useful in the process of learning the crap.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - classclown - 05-08-2009 06:55 AM

same as if you did it the old fashion way and sat in class. only big difference is time.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - random_name - 05-08-2009 06:58 AM

True, but you could also learn about things you want to do.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - classclown - 05-08-2009 06:59 AM

more with the time saved. another proplem would be geting out of school so early. jobs are not use to hireing young.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - random_name - 05-08-2009 07:02 AM

That's true. Though if you pass your diploma early, doesn't that show you are capable and mature?


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - classclown - 05-08-2009 07:04 AM

not really jusy shows you can memorise needless knowledge


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - random_name - 05-08-2009 07:07 AM

True, i meant the way other would interpret it too.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - classclown - 05-08-2009 07:10 AM

they would wave it of as a kid who doesnt respect the process. also some kid who wants to jump ahead.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - random_name - 05-08-2009 07:13 AM

True. Most of them were like that too, at one point or another.

Methinks this has becoe a conversation between us two. Stopping.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - AWOL - 05-08-2009 07:49 AM

It wouldn't work, I'm telling you now. You have three factions here: The Government, The Parents and The Kids.

The Government wants money, and we're in recession/depression. They will do near anything to get the money.

The Parents was their kids to have an education. They are also ignorant of their kids' pleas.

The Kids are brainwashed. Society tells them nothing aside from want they 'need' to know. They don't want to do exams.

You have three factions against you for the most part.

It. Will. Not. Work.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - Liquid - 05-08-2009 07:59 AM

I love Soul's idea, if that had been in place I never would have needed to go to jr high and high school. I can pass any test even if I've never seen the information before.

Unfortunately I've got to agree with Mortalitas though, it'll never happen :(


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - LOON_ATTIC - 05-09-2009 10:08 AM

I agree, but they should get rid of the control. I remember the other day in PE the SUB made us sit down in "5 seconds", ordering us around like dogs... and all this useless "discipline" is just annoying. It's brainwashing.
NEVER forget that.

Your idea is really good, but I don't think it will happen Yuck


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - psychopath - 05-09-2009 12:22 PM

SoulRiser Wrote:Yeah, I suppose the "value" of the diploma would go down. Then again, its value is based purely on perception as it is anyway.

I think it would be perfect if people could take the test weekly. It's value is bullshit anyway.

This way pretty much anyone can do anything as long as they have the required skills and know the required knowledge.


Re: One simple and easy change schools can make. - The Desert Fox - 05-09-2009 05:42 PM

I hate to say it as much as you hate to hear it, ut it's not gonna work. Sure, some teachers/parents will support it, but they will be few and far-between. Most will say "Oh, they NEED all that high school education!!!" or "They're just trying to avoid something that's nescessary" or some dumb crap.