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RE: Steve Hein's Thread - Marshall Rosenberg - stevehein - 06-21-2017 08:45 AM

Anyone know this guy?

I'd like to talk about his work/ideas/beliefs.

I have kind of a love - hate feeling about him.

His ideas - many of them but not all - are very similar to mine.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - feeling aggressive, violent, homicidal - stevehein - 06-21-2017 08:22 PM

ok i feel a bit better just having said that.

it is now 6:52 AM
i woke up an hour or so ago. one of the things i started thinking about was this forum. and how to handle someone who is saying hurtful things about people in the forum.

then i thought of the email i got from Thom Bond's forum.

It is one of the reasons for the above feeligns...

here is a copy


Your account on 'Compassion Course Online 2016 Forum' has been deleted by the administrator, due to your inactivity on the forum.

If you still wish to be part of our community, you can register again with the following link:

This e-mail has been sent to you by an administrator of "Compassion Course Online 2016 Forum" -


Does that sound very compassionate to you?

I feel hatred. But what is hatred but aggression/violence/homicidal or hurtful feelings?

I don't believe in hurting people. Yet I do sometimes feel hurtful.

And I have hurt people. Intentionally.

I can be aggressive at times. I can be viollent and destructive. I have never actually killed anyone but there are a few people I have thought about killing.

Maybe some people have thought about killing me.

That puts things in a different perspective. Because I wouldn't want someone to kill me rather than talk to me; try to understand me.

I would like to pay someone to work for me btw. Someone who doesn't need a lot of money but who feels supportive of my ideas.

I am willing to pay someone to listen to me. If they will let me teach them how to listen to me.

I am also willing to pay someone to be a mediator here on ss.

Not a lot, but something. Something symbolic. Unless or until we can find a way to make some money. I don't feel real charitable when it comes to money.

I feel protective of my own money.

But I will pay someone. So if you have paypal and are interested, please let me know.

So I will call the person G here on ss.

I was not feeling much compassion or empathy for G in a post that I left last night - a post in which I said something like "it is not acceptable to me to call someone on the forum an idiot" -- and it is not acceptable to me to have someone say "I don't care what you feel"

If this were my forum I might have just banned the person last night. I felt very intolerant.

And btw I don't want that person leaving any comments in my thread. I think I still have mod functions so I will probably move the post or split the thread or whatever if they do.

So I am looking for a mediator.

I don't like the idea of banning people. I have been banned from forums - it hurt. A lot.

And I have had my accounts deleted.

That is some kind of theft to me.

And extremely disrespectful and uncaring.

So my best option for how to deal with the conflict between g and I is a mediator.

I am taking things too personally to make totally "rational" decisions.

I don't like feeling aggressive. But I do feel that way.

It usually helps me to write honestly about my feelings.

This is one place I can do that.

At least sometimes. Sometimes I don't feel safe to.

But tonight I am feeling more homicidal than suicidal.

I would definitely kill someone to save my own life or to save the life of someone I cared about and valued.

But this isn't a case where killing someone is necessary. And not even hurting them is necessary.

So that is all for now.

tfr thanks for reading.

and thanks to __ for replying to my pm --

I don't need a lot of support. But I do need some at times. I got some ayer.
Ayer means yesterday in spanish. it is a lot faster to write.

actually i got some support from two people ayer.

i know i am not popular here. that hurts. i would like to be more popular. to have more influence.

btw i dont believe in democracy

or punishment.

most people who have been domesticated in cultures where punishment is part of the culture also believe in the use of punishment. i used to myself.

so i would not have a vote on whether to ban someone from this forum

i am usually in the minority.

i dont agree with thomas jefferson who said something like "if the majority disagrees with me i must go along with the majority"

school is a good example of this

people are domesticated or brainwashed or socialized or educated or programmed to believe school is a good thing and it is ok to make it compuslory and punish people who dont go or send their kids

so if we voted in most countries around the world, most people would vote to keep punishing people for not obeying the school laws.

so this is a good example of why i dont believe in democracy - not the kind we have now.

i am not sure of a better system but i am sure there is a better system

i have been thinking about this for a long time. democracy gave us trump. so i dont think i need to say anything more if you mind works a little like mine.

i dont feel very respected or valued here. only by soulriser consistently. sorry if i am leaving someone out but no one comes to mind right now. there were people in the past but the ones i am thinking of are not active now.

yet this is still a place for me to "vent" - and to test some of my theories. and to look for someone who i might get some support from. and who might even one day want to help me in real life, not just online. i have been looking for that for years.

there are a lot of things i want to do before i die - or before i kill myself. i am not really planning on dying of old age. i worry about not having enough time to do all the things i want to do. at the same time i dont want to be trapped in a hospital or something, slowly dying and being controlled by people who dont know or or care about me. who are just there because it is their job - in other words an economic not a loving or caring relationship

so that is all for now i guess.....

now i will go see what g left on the thread where i posted about what i talked about here.

it is hard for me to feel empathy or think about what someone else needs when i am in a lot of pain myself.

and hard to remember when someone says something like 'idiot" they are in pain. pain from some unmet need.

and to remember they weren't taught to identify their feelings and needs.

and they are products of a very sick society/culture.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - the Analogist - 06-22-2017 05:54 AM

when I felt the need to attack theCancer it wasnt because of an unmet emotional need of mine but for the fact that a deceptively benign piece of nonesense was spouted. since people read it and didnt respond i felt the need to call him out on it and raise the issue. it didnt go good because people had a hard time knowing where i was coming from, seemed like nobody was trying. i kinda gave up on that campaign.

this is kind of a separate issue maybe, but IN GENERAL we dont avoid the truth just because somebody will feel bad about it. tact can be present or non-present but as I've said honesty is the ability to recognize the truth regardless of how it makes you feel or is presented.

i get being protective, and i think most people get being overprotective, most people get politeness and rudeness are real too. but being protective of people would as you mentioned include the rude and angry. those emotions come from somewhere too

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - the Analogist - 06-22-2017 08:00 AM

My analysis of Jop "solicited" by gwedin was my way of defending Jop, but not in such a way that I was being dishonest about him. I thought maybe he could benefit from the analysis.

Although that has had me thinking, of what benefit is it to you to hear a really insightful analysis of you?

If the insights are true you can either feel hurt, dishonestly deny it, or own it. The accuracy of my observations remains to be seen though.

Also, to put it one way, if nobody takes themselves too seriously, then the apparent disrespect seen is really just a way of making sure nobody gets too high on themselves.

I mean, SS is if nothing else a place to be ourselves, but nobody should be above valid criticism and nobody should be a dick. somewhere in the middle is where we should be. allow some invalid criticism here and there, allow being a dick here and there. of course the problem with persistent bad behavior is the nexus of all we talk about here. by what means do we rectify persistent bad behavior? You say it comes from unmet emotional needs, i think sometimes it does comes from a character defect. smart trolls are saying these they don't feel because of the responses they want. Not every troll deserves sympathy, but surely non-trolls who say dumb stuff need to be corrected in a process I call conversation...

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - Gwedin - stevehein - 06-22-2017 04:49 PM

I would feel better if Gwedin left the forums. I would feel safer.

I would feel less need to protect myself, defend myself and to protect others.

I am not a fan of banning people or punishing them. I guess warning is ok.

I don't know if Gweden sees anything wrong in what he is doing. I guess Gwedin is a he.

For me it is not ok to quote someone and then say "idiot".

It is not ok to criticize someone in their welcome message.

Maybe he didn't see it as criticizing.

For me it is not ok to tell someone "I don't care what you feel"

Also, Gwedin is no longer in school.

As I see it this place is primarily for supporting people who are trying to survive the painful, often depression and suicide provoking feelings of schools.

So people come here needing support.

Telling someone I am probably going to shit on your deeply held beliefs, is not supportive. And saying something like "keep writing paragraphs without breaks" or whatever he said to Sunfllower is not supportive.

I don't know how Sunflower felt about that but I took it as criticism.

I like Sunflower's style. I like her passion. She is the kind of person this forum is being maintained for - at least as far as I see it.

I don't know what Soulriser's are these days. But I know my own needs. And they are not being met by posts like those of Gwedin.

So I have a couple of options. One is to stop coming here. To give up, in other words -- to put my energy into something else.

Another is to do what I am doing now - express myself - try to get some of my needs met here.

In general I don't like people who are no longer in highschool - or younger - who use this forum to meet their personal needs - or try to - without supporting the people in the school/prison system.

But I myself am not in school. I am probably the oldest active member on here. I am 59. So why am I here? It is a fair question. One reason is to express myself. In a relatively safe place. By that I mean a place where I am unlikely to get banned.

But it is not safe emotionally when there are people who come here to try to fill their need to feel powerful or superior or something at other people's expense. Or their need to feel intelligent - by calling others names like stupid or idiot, for example.

So back to my "point" since Gwedin likes to talk about "points" not feelings.

I don't feel much empathy for Gwedin. I feel something closer to hatred right now.

So I feel a bit hypocritical because I believe in the theory of empathy/compassion. But I also feel integritous because I am being emotionally honest.

I am using Gwedin now a bit to try to help myself feel better.

I would like to "prove" to people here - or at least to SR - and maybe one or two others - that we need to raise the standards here. Raise the bar of empathy for example. - empathy and support.

I am not sure how SS got to the point where it is ok to quote someone and say "idiot".

But I know it bothers me. Especially when the person who was quoted is someone who, if I am not mistaken, is still in school/prison.

Also, I know there are people here who feel depressed and who have thought of suicide or tried it.

So I feel very protective of those people. And I have cut my own wrist once too. And I often feel suicidal. I was feeling a bit suicidal last night in fact after thinking about this forum and society in general.

I came online feeling fine. I had a good day. I did just want I wanted to all day. I was laying by a campfire outside in a little house type thing I created.

Then I started reading the forums. And at some point I started feeling discouraged, and sad and powerless and very outnumbered and then powerless and then suicidal.

btw I just read what G posted below. I am in the process of editing this now. I was a bit confused by the times but apparently G is online and saw the first draft of the second draft of this post.

So I'd like to say I have changed my mind about moving his posts/reply. At least for now. I am ok with "letting the record" show this little conflict.

I actually feel a bit more respect for G since his last post here.

What I dont feel is much understanding.

I really don't understand why he would quote someone and then just say "idiot."

I can guess and speculate and try to analyze him but I prefer not to.

For me there is way too much analysis of other people here, without their permission or their request to be analyzed.

I am not sure that I would analyze someone even if they asked me to.

Not unless I was getting paid for it, let's say.

But I would probably not feel to good about it even then, because I really believe that what people need - desperately need - we might say is understanding - and not "analysis."

So that is all for now.

Thank you ro sr for creating and maintaining this place.


Ok i will say something else. I feel a bit better now... so I will get to something else. I really believe in the idea of feelings and needs.

I believe in a lot of Marshall Rosenberg's ideas and teachings and even some of his bs.

I don't like the guy. I don't think SR understands clearly yet why I don't like him but I am working on that bit by bit.

The guy was a revolutionary thinker, I'd say.

One thing he said that I really like is "people don't make good slaves once they become aware of their needs" or slt something like that.

That might be my favorite quote from him. But it isn't an exact quote. So we can say it is my quote based on his idea.

So anyhow one of his favorite sayings is something like "everyone's needs can be met."

I like that concept. I like the idea of a group of people who all care about each other's needs - at least to some extent.

In other words, who all care about each other to some extent.

It is unlikely that G and I will become bff - but it is possible. Anyhow, I talked to one person who said they liked Gwedin. So I have a suggestion - I dont really want to talk to G directly. But I am willing to try to resolve our conflict via some kind of mediator - someone who is a friend of G's for example. I'd feel better if we didnt have to ban anyone -- I wrote somewhere before that I have been banned and I know how much pain it caused me at the time.

At the same time I feel a need to protect others and to try to make this a safter place.

I am sure there are some people who never make an account here because they see how hurtful others can be here.

So it makes sense to me that I don't get much empathy or support here.

The kind of people who would feel a lot of empathy for me would be too fucking scared to come here. Like my ex gf Priscilla for example.

People kill themselves when they get too much criticism and social rejection -- too much bullying let's say - or not enough emotional support.

I am a bit confused about why SR has let so much of what I would call bullying and emotional abuse slide here.

In other words why she accept so much or tolerates so much.

I have said before I think that I am sure she would feel terrible if she ever found out that someone was feeling suicidal and they came here for support and then the got the exact opposite of what they need - and then that was the last straw and they killed themselves.

Of course we would probably never even know if this happened. But for me it is a very real possibility.

So I will "warn" people as I have done before - seemingly to no aviail -- don't fuck with depressed suicidal people.

Don't cause them any more pain. They have been in too much pain for too long.

Right now I feel very "energized" in my need to protect these kind of people.

Depressed, suicidal teenagers have been my best friends over the past 15 or so years. Sadly, most them them got sucked in to what I call the black hole - the university system.

But for a while they were the most emotionally supportive people in my life.

So I feel very protective of them.

Now the reality is that many depressed people are so non-aggressive that they would not even like me to defend them if it meant hurting someone else. That is a bit ironic I guess we could say.

It is possible they won't say "I am feeling hurt by what so and so said" cuz they are afraid I will attack that so and so person.

So anyhow I feel valued enough by SR that I feel a bit optimistic that she will feel supportive of this "rant" of mine.

And I feel optimistic she will feel pretty understanding.

She and I don't always agree with each other but I believe we have a pretty high level of mutual respect if not admiration.

The Apologist quoted something in his post called musings about education that said something like a great king listens to his counsel but then follows his heart.

I believe SR has a good "heart" - I believe she is what I would call emotionally intelligent. So I would expect her to consider what I am saying but then follow her own heart so to speak.

I am actually not recommending she ban Gwedin, btw. But I am recommending she support me in establishing some new standards here.

I would actually like it if Gwedin ended up feeling more understood and more cooperative and less hurtful towards others.

I'd like someone to help me talk to G. For now I feel too strongly to talk directly to him.

Which reminds me of another reason I come to ss. It is to test my theories, my beliefs.

I want to change systems. I am looking for and trying to help create new systems. New educational, economic and conflict resolution systems for example.

And definitely a new "mental health care" system.

People say things like you have to start by making changes to yourself. Well, I have already made a lot and I am trying to make more.

For example, I am trying to live up to my theory and belief of showing everyone some caring/empathy/compassion. But I also realize sometimes a mediator is needed. So I'd like to see if anyone is willing to try.

I want to teach mediation skills btw. I believe it will be, and already is, a good business. I see it as a chance to be economically independent - without needing a university degree.

Dominic Barter could easily make a living at mediating conflicts for example, And he didn't study mediation or conflict resolution in the university. He learned mostly from Marshall Rosenberg.

If you don't know who Dominic Bater is, I suggest you goggle him. I am pretty sure I am the only one on the forum who has met him Smile so I feel pretty proudn and I guess superior about that.

I think Gwiedin doesnt like the fact that I act and come off as arrogant and superior. I can kind of understand that. At the same time I do feel more intelligent and more aware/enlightened than nearly everyone around me.

I definitely have had a lot more experience both in terms of years and things I have done. I am pretty sure I am the only one on this forum who has been to about sixty countries or who has visited schools around the world.

Or who has their own website that was ranked number one on at least a couple of things and is still often in the top three for a few things. Try emotionally abusive mothers for example. Or invalidation. Or feeling words.

Maybe I am not in the top anymore but I have been. I was number one on emotional abuse for awhile in fact before all the big institutions - with their mainstream beliefs and deep pockets started writing about those things.

So I feel a bit bitter about that.

But anyhow, I am gonna check my pm's now.

Steve Hein's Thread - Gwedin - 06-22-2017 04:52 PM

you seem to be basically begging for me to reply and give my view but you state you'll just move the post or whatever.

defending myself seems useless here unless you're willing to go back on the moderation threat. or we could just debate this in another thread. i don't care either way whatever works for you

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - Feeling unappreciated - stevehein - 06-22-2017 06:04 PM

That's what I will call it.. feeling unappreciated.

Here is what happened. I have been talking to someone who has been feeling very depressed. She is in her twenties I think. She is some kind of a teacher. She has been studying non violent communication. --- which means she is pretty screwed up/damaged I am sorry to say...

anyhow, she hadn't replied to me in a long time so I was getting a bit worried she had killed herself.

so i emailed her and said i was worried about her

then shr write this to me

Hi Steve

I must say from my experience with emailing with you, you would disappear and it was non I am not motivated to reply.


My first reaction was I felt attacked let's say or something very painful. My thought was "fuck you"

I thought of writing her something hurtful. I thought of not replying. I then tried to think of her needs a bit.. so I decided to reply... I wrote

I felt a lot of pain to read what you wrote


so that is better than saying "fuck you" haha

or at least I believe it is better.

and I believe it is better than no reply.

i really dont care much now if she kills herself. i care a little but honestly, not much.

my theory/belief is that in any relationship there has to be some mutual needs meeting taking place.

i didnt feel appreciated by her. so my need to feel appreciated wasn't met.

if she had written back and said 'i am here. thanks for caring and checking" -- i would have felt appreciated.

but basically she just attacked me - blamed me. she didnt say what she needed or how she felt. so fuck her.

i laugh now...

yeah i can be called cold at times. she doesn't read this forum btw...

i really dont like anyone i have met thru nvc -- well that is a bit inaccurate but not much

yet i like a lot of the ideas - which makes sense cuz a lot are almost exactly like mine. but some are very different. and i will repeat: i dont like rosenberg.

i feel a bit discouraged no one has commented on my previous post about him

people - like psychology students- spend a hell of a lot of time memorizing stuff about people a hell of a lot less interesting. interesting and practical.

i suppose that is why academic people don't like him. he is too practical. and he also criticizes academia. that could be part of it. ha.

he got a phd in psychology but basically says it was detrimental to him actually helping people.

he said they taught him to analyze people but not to show them empathy

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - stevehein - 06-22-2017 06:27 PM

i dont feel very understood when I read this...

"you seem to be basically begging for me to reply..."

I don't want a reply and i feel offended that he says "begging"

so i am thinking about this word begging

to me someone who is begging is in some kind of inferior position.

which adds to my theory that gwedin is trying to fill one of his unmet needs to feel superior or at least equal.

so no, i would not say i am "begging"

it is closer to demanding.

gwedin also used the word threat.

to me a person who is in a position to threaten someone is not also in a begging position relative to that person.

i do feel more threatening than begging.

i dont mind of g feels threatened. i want him to pay attention to what he is doing

i would not feel too bad if sr banned him. i would be interested to know how he feels. but that is different than begging. id like him to feel understood but i still feel offended by the implication i am begging.

i feel hostile, aggressive.

i was thinking of the survial instinct and the killer instinct

i dont think humans actually are born with a "killer instinct" - not to kill other humans

survival yes. killer no

what's the diff?

So let's take gwedin.

i can envision myself getting into a physical fight with him. and then beating him literally to death. and then probably feeling bad about it later.

especially if i saw his gf his, friends crying etc.

they might understandably say "why did you kill him???"

so how would i answer? would i say "i had to"?

i like rosenberg's idea of the protective use of force.

so let's say someone was hurting me or someone i cared about.

i probably would use some force to stop them from that.

but probably it would not be necessary to kill them to stop them.

that would be called "excessive force" we could say.

so protecting myself or the person or pple i cared about would be the survival instinct. not the killer instinct.

i might kill someone if i were sufficiently enraged- offended - scared - energized/angry.

but there would have to be a lot of precedents to lead up to that amount of painful feelings.

i can definitely understand why someone who has felt hurt by someone would want to stop that person from every hurting them again. so one way would be to kill them

or in a forum -- to ban them

that is like the death penalty we might say

i am not sure if sr would have killed duelix. duelis is a person everyone seemed to want to ban/kill.

i have almost no feelings about duelix. i wasnt on fhe forum much then.

i dont recall ever being personally attacked by duelix. i dont recall anything he ever said or wrote. so yeah i have about zero feelings. i do know he was a bit pain in the ass to sr. so for that reason i have some feeling. and the feeling is to protect her.

so she wouldnt have to waste her time defending herself and others. and her forums

so back to killer instinct.

we don't usually kill humans to eat them. not like other animals do.

some. the ones we call predators i think.

i dont think humans are born predators. i dont believe that.

i have never see one child that i can clearly recall who was anything like predator and not fucked up by his or her parents.

school fucks u up, but parents have more affect on a child than school does, i am pretty sure.

i knew a girl once, sophie, from belgium. her dad worked at ibm

there was a joke that said ibm stands for i've been moved
actually it is international business machines. i met someone recently who didnt know that btw.

so anyhow sophie's dad got moved around a lot by the company. she moved to a country where she didnt speak the language and she got bullied at school. but it didnt totally fuck her up. i could see she didnt feel that bad about school. so i asked why. she said cuz when i got home i knew i would always get support and understanding

or slt. something like that....

but i trust u get the idea.

so yeah, parents are pretty much everything when it comes to a child/teen's emotional health


correction. maybe i partly do want a reply. but it depends what kind of reply. i dont think i wanted a reply as much as i wanted peace. safety.

now i see that giving someone a chance to reply is actually more likely to lead to peace and safety.

so if i had a gun and gwedin was standing there or started attacking me or someone i cared about - what would i do? what would i want? what would be motivating me? what would my needs be? which would take priority?

dominic barter said needs were "context dependent"

so one need might be to protect myself. another might be to live with integrity to my beliefs.

so one belief would be "don't kill people" but my need to protect myself might take priority over my need to act with integrity.

so what would i do?

let's say i am the judge and jury. i won't get punished if i kill gwedin.

what would i do?

would i put down the gun? would i hand it to him?

would i put it on a table between us where he could reach it?

would he kill me?

ha ha

it would be interesting to see what would happen

would gwedin want to ban me?

would he feel safer if i were banned? if i stopped posting? stopped writing about him?

i am pretty sure feelings are important. very important in fact. so in this case i will say ok g, u have a chance to save your life. tell me how u are feeling or i will kill u.


so let's say he said "i think you... " or "you seem to..."

then I would just say ok. you failed. bye. and pull the trigger.

i actually would like to have that kind of power. i will admit it. u can say i am sick. i dont i dont mind too much. but just dont get near me if i have a gun.

to have the power to ban someone is like having a gun with no fear of punishment.

that is dangerous.

a lot of forum admins abuse their power.

they ban people with no fear of "consequences" -- that is unnatural.

it is inhumane.

these fucking pple annoy me. but wait annoy doesnt tell u what i need or me.

so what is more specific?

people who abuse their power. who have banned me for example.

i would probably kill them if i also had no chance of being punished.

so there is an equality issue.

they can ban me or use power over me but i can't use any over them.

that is total inequality.

it makes me feel pretty powerless

so i need to find some way to fill my need to feel powerful....

so i become a moderator or a teacher. or a parent - police officer etc.

what i wouldnt want to be is a writer - that no one reads. and no one values or cares about


i might try to find a safe place where i could express myself and call people names and not have to feel afraid of being punished or killed/banned.

ss is a good place for that

it is kind of fucked up, isn't it? if u look at it that way....

hug to sr

Steve Hein's Thread - Gwedin - 06-22-2017 06:53 PM

you're fucking insane tbh

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - Logic, feelings - Analogist - stevehein - 06-22-2017 07:31 PM

The Analogist wrote about logic and related things in his post called Musing about Education.

After reading a lot of what he wrote I began thinking about the value and importance of feelings

Just now I thought of a child's feelings.

Let's say a father yells at his daughter. So she feels scared.

What category would he put that into? Is it a fact? Is it opinion? Is it experience?

We might say the fact is that the father yelled. It is something we could video tape and see again.

But is her feeling scared also a fact?

I would say it is.

If we asked her "How do you feel?" and she said "Scared," I would say that is a fact.

I would say her "experience" was being yelled at and feeling fear.

With more experiences of a similar nature, she probably would learn to fee afraid of her father.

Now since TA is a father, I would ask him "Do you want your children to be afraid of you?"

I am guessing he will say no, as most parents I have asked do.

Yet most children are afraid of their parents.

Parents don't check out how their child is actually feeling.

This, I would say, is a big mistake.

It reminds me of the story of the mother who hit her child. I suggested she ask her daughter how the daughter felt when her mother hit her. So she did ask her. The daughter, then 4, said "i feel like you don't love me."

Now since TA likes to connect the dots. I will connect that story to this forum.

And to school.

People don' care how you feel in school. They don't ask.

So you become damaged people who have not felt care about and whose natural empathy has been killed or nearly so. So you come onto a forum like this and you write about people as if they had no feelings and you don't ask them how they feel about what you write.

And in some cases, you actually say "I don't care how you feel."

We all have one thing in common here -- no one really cared how we felt when we were young.

So I suggest we start caring about how each other feels now.

I will ask this question:

What do we need to put more value on in the world now? Logic or feelings?

I believe the answer is feelings.

It seems logical to me Smile

PS I might copy this and put it in TA's thread. He mentioned he had no comments yet. I forgot to ask him how he felt about that!

(06-22-2017 05:54 AM)the Analogist Wrote:  when I felt the need to attack ...... somewhere too

Just letting u know i read this. I might comment later in a different thread.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - stevehein - 06-22-2017 07:40 PM

(06-22-2017 08:00 AM)the Analogist Wrote:  My .... conversation...

I also read this. And I may reply at some point. I feel a little overwhelmed with things to reply to ATM and my mind is full of stuff. I have been up about half the night writing, reading.. it is now about six thirty am. So I am feeling need for sleep, let's say. but there are still some things on my mind...that leave me feeling unsettled, let's say.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - New :"rules" / guidelines for the forums - stevehein - 06-22-2017 10:11 PM

I don't like rules. I like guidelines.
But for now I will use the word "rules."

I was just thinking "I am making my own rules for this forum"

I am afraid SR will feel a bit disrespected or something so I will acknowledge that I dont actually make the rules here. But I will still use that expression because it helps me express what I want to say.

I am tired of seeing a lot of the posts on here. I am tired, for example, of people posting things that are not helpful to those who are trying to survive the combined hell of teen prison, shitty parents, and forced schools. Not to mention controlling governments and uncaring corporations .institutions and employers/slave renters.

I say slave renters because people don't usually own slaves anymore, but they "rent them." You sell yourself to someone for a certain amount of money for a certain amount of time. I will call that being a rent-a-slave.

In general I have more respect and admiration for people who choose not to be rentaslaves, although I would like someone to be my rentaslave and do some paid work for me or volunteer work but I don't feel very optimistic about the latter. And not very opt about the former either.

Anyhow, so my new "rule" is that if you are not in school, then you need to have some serious contribution to make here. Or else.

Or else what?

Or else-- idk..

Maybe I will make my own black list. Or warning list.

Or I will list posts that offend me.

For example, someone left a post that made noises like a horse. Nothing else.

I don't see a lot of value added by that. So I would perhaps give the person a few warnings and ask them to please remove the offending post.

And I would ask them how they feel about me asking them to remove it.

If someone consistently felt defiant, controlled, rebellious, uncooperative then I would, perhaps, simply point that out to all the new members.

I don't have much connection to any of the existing members. I don't feel especially caring towards anyone who has been around a while.

I don't know all the new people. I am also not sure how much time and energy I will put into this.

But for now, I am thinking of some new "rules" and new "consequences". Or new responses or reactions.

I really would like this to be a safe and somewhat predictable place.

I would like people to know that if they call someone an idiot or if they make noises like a horse and they are no longer in school, and they are not generally supportive of my personal goals here or of SoulRiser's - which I think are pretty closely aligned - please correct me where i am wrong sr - then I will do something about it.

Right now I think I prefer warning people - on two levels - to banning.
By warning I mean pointing out the offending posts to the offender and also keeping some kind of record so new people can be forewarned and also can be informed of what the standards are here.

SR is a lot more tolerant than I am. A whole lot more. She also spends more time reading the posts. I don't know how she has read so many posts for so many years. It would be understandable if she were to get tired of it and just say fuck it one day and close the forum.

I would feel bad if that happened. I have offered to give her a break for a while in running it. So far she hasn't accepted my offer. And that is ok with me cuz I'm not sure how much patience I would have.

Patience is not one of my strong points. But now I think of the Buddhist thing I heard once that said something like if you are feeling x it is an opportunity to work on y. So in this case x is impatience and y is patience.

See I did learning something in math - that I applied in a non math teacher approving way, we might say. I pretty much hate math teachers, btw And phys ed or gym teachers. They seem to be the two worst types of "teachers" when it comes to emotions and emotional needs.

I hate fucking whistles for example. And watching kids stand or sit around in gym class while the fucking gym teacher explains the rules of some new fucking competitive "game". And I hate seeing them be bossed around. By someone who is pretty much always on a fucking power trip.

I have just stood and watched gym teachers around the world. They pretty much always have a fucking whistle. And pretty much always do the same fucking things.

Anyhow, so that is a few words on my new "rules."

Your comments are welcomed SR.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - invalidation, self promotion - stevehein - 06-23-2017 05:32 AM

since i dont feel taken very seriously on this forum i want to do a little self promotion

here is something i found online... she uses a lot of my writing on invalidation

if you are not familiar with invalidation, please check it out.

one thing i dont like about her blog tho is her use of the label psychopath.

but anyhow it is a good article and has a lot of comments worth reading.

i am pretty sure they wont teach you what invalidation is in school

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - the Analogist - 06-23-2017 06:02 AM

my TCS is an approach to knowledge.. emotions are an ancillary issue, unrelated, apples and cell-phones.

the structure of knowledge changes for nobody, so I say. but the effort to "know yourself" or "know your surroundings" doesnt invalidate emotion, but it puts emotion in its context. the effort to understand where your emotions come from, and to analyze if they are legitimate, I call inventory

I also say that what you consider as "fact" is anything you believe to be true. I invoke honesty to say keep humble about your opinions and open to discussion because otherwise you may be advocating things that arent true

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - the Analogist - 06-23-2017 08:00 AM

stevehein, I think you and I both want to be taken seriously and we have a lot to give.

I gotta remind myself and you that this a common fallacy of teachers, and I know I fall into this trap. we "teach" the best not by giving but by being responsive to what other people want to take.

i clarify with the albeit subtle point that doing this WITH guidance means to a degree steering people. my problem is pushing in the direction I want instead of what is best for them, im sure i've done this but I try not to.

btw I sent a pm apology to Jop. i told him, and this is the truth, that he actually reminds me of an old friend from high school i still hang out with.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - stevehein - 06-23-2017 08:15 AM

(06-22-2017 06:53 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  you're fucking insane tbh

i will report this too

and keep a record of it

Steve Hein's Thread - Gwedin - 06-23-2017 04:26 PM

i really don't care

reporting does nothing to change my behaviour. nothing short of a ban will change it so you're wasting your time. unless your intention is to get me banned.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - stevehein - 06-23-2017 07:04 PM

(06-23-2017 04:26 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  i really don't care

reporting does nothing to change my behaviour. nothing short of a ban will change it so you're wasting your time. unless your intention is to get me banned.

i already said my main goals are

1. to warn you
2. warn others

you will get yourself banned if anyone bans you. i am just highlighting what you are posting to make it easier for someone to make that decision if they chose to.

you don't seem to care much if you are banned so i wont feel too bad if someone bans you.

i feel pretty neutral about it.

i feel satisfied that i have stated my case pretty clearly and there is sufficient evidence to at the least warn new people about you.

if you want to disregard what i am saying, that is obviously your choice.
i am not trying to change you as much as i am trying to protect others from you.

you don't believe they need to be protected from you. because you don't understand what abuse is or why teenagers kill themselves.

i am curious though to know more about why you say you think about killing yourself everyday. i would feel bad if you killed yourself. i dont want to contribute to that yet if i have to chose to save someone's life i would chose to save the less aggressive, abusive person.

you may not see yourself as aggressive either. but i do. you are verbally attacking people when you call them names like idiot, insane.

saying it is a joke is one form of invalidation.
have you checked to see how people feel about your "jokes"
i am going to guess that you haven't.

you have made it pretty clear you don't care how others feel.

that, to me, is sick. and it is result of being abused.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - the Analogist - 06-23-2017 07:13 PM

i just want to state I do feel some solidarity with gwedin here.

I alse feel like im learning a lot from stevehein.

I think exacting a view of perfection upon SS really needs the discretion of SR and I would not recommend banning gwedin.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - stevehein - 06-23-2017 07:30 PM

hi tA

1. could you explain what you mean by this?

(06-23-2017 07:13 PM)the Analogist Wrote:  i just want to state I do feel some solidarity with gwedin here.

2. also, would you call any of the posts by gwedin abusive?

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - the Analogist - 06-23-2017 11:56 PM

I mean gwedin reminds me of me, and a few old friends i've been alienated from for a long time. I get what gwedin is doing even though I do think he goes a bit too far sometimes.

I see how they sound abusive, and confusing to new people, but in general i just see him as a goofy prankster.

I get where you are coming from too.

but I too have felt the pain of being misread by militant positivity people. I feel annoyed on behalf of gwedin.

When i was much younger my parents made me go to this dumbass christian summer camp thing. i went a bit too far with my humor and one counselor felt the need to break me down and had me crying with his speech about how im an ass. I am still pissed at my parents about sending me to that summer camp.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - apology to SoulRiser - stevehein - 06-24-2017 04:20 AM

i want to say sorry to SR because i made it sound like i was blaming her for what other people have posted here.

i apologize because, first i remember once she said something like "if i tried to control what people post it would be a nightmare." when she said that i immediately understood what she meant.

second she has already done what i would call a super human job on ss. i tried running my own forum for awhile and couldnt handle it and shut it down.

im afraid sr will also shut her forums down if we dont support her more.

she clearly wants the forums to be a supportive place. we each can help her. right now i am willing to step up and do what i can. i make no promises except i will do my best.

these forums mean a lot to me. i often feel love for for some of the ppl on here

i am crying again now...

i dont always feel accepted, supported, safe here but there are times when this is the only place i want to write and can do so relatively freely.

sr has been by far my most supportive online friend for several years now.

also i know this place does help a LOT of people

if there is a heaven, sr has already been assigned a spot.

and i am an atheist.

when i think of all the people i know online who try to make a difference she and jordan riak at are the 2 who come to mind as those i admire most

jerry mintz at the education revolution -aero - is one more but he does a lot of marketing and self promotion

so yeah, sorry, sr.

hug if u want one

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - Gwedin - 06-24-2017 07:08 AM

(06-23-2017 11:56 PM)the Analogist Wrote:  I do think he goes a bit too far sometimes.

that's probably true. i think i do fake outrage and try to make really personal attacks at times but nothing comes to mind atm. i know i pretend to be outraged and angry a lot though Biggrin

(06-23-2017 11:56 PM)the Analogist Wrote:  but in general i just see him as a goofy prankster.

this is how i wanted to come off before i recently started arguing a lot. i don't know why i started arguing. boredom maybe. but yeah the whole "goofy" thing was just basically i wanted a carefree community where cunts that hated school could fucken chill out and be wild and speak their mind and make buds (join the discord cunts) or whatever

i still want a carefree community as opposed to a supportive one. i think the emotional support subforum serves the purpose of being supportive fine. i think i've disregarded the "only be supportive" rule for that subforum plenty of times though but that's something i should actually change because it is dedicated to that kind of shit

tbh im of the opinion that making buds here and engaging and joking around with cunts is the best way of supporting ppl. fuck all comes from posting ":hug:" for the millionth time in a thread idk. i suppose it's intended to show you care but it comes off as incredibly insincere to me as opposed to just fucking around and having a laugh which is a genuine show of affection or whatever. idek what im saying now

i wish i had more time to actually engage with the newcunts in the discord but, ah life

(06-23-2017 11:56 PM)the Analogist Wrote:  but I too have felt the pain of being misread by militant positivity people. I feel annoyed on behalf of gwedin.

i feel like the newcunts here misinterpret my posts often. i think i straight up confused bennyboy and i remember angering dep101 in one post where i was trying to ""help"" cuz i'm way too blunt in how i post or whatveer. idk

Steve Hein's Thread - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - 06-24-2017 08:39 AM

Hey, Steve what is the sissy philosophy or theory or whatever shit it was?
._. bish tell me what it isssssssssssssssss hhhrrrrrrrrrrrggggggg
[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - Banning Gwedin - stevehein - 06-24-2017 08:48 AM

I have just banned Gwedin

There were a few reasons. But the last straw was when I saw that he had deleted a post in my thread.

It is possible he deleted one of his own posts so I could be mistaken and I possibly over-reacted.

I will try to pm him. If anyone knows another way to reach him in case that doesn't work, plz let me know. And pllease feel free to tell me how you feel about me banning him.

I feel a little bad about it, especially since I am not sure what he deleted. But both SR and I need a bit of a break from the drama here. I will llisten to people, no matter what they say. But I probably wont reply with much more than an "ok thanks" - at least not for now. I have been writing a lot lately. I am almost out of words. For now.

I just need some rest. But I will still read whatever people say.

Steve Hein's Thread - Depression101 - 06-24-2017 08:51 AM

Gwendin is now on discord, Steve, and I think he wants to speak to you.

Steve Hein's Thread - vonunov - 06-24-2017 08:57 AM

He won't be able to read PMs while he's banned.

I don't think banning Gwedin is a great move overall and I have some ideas about why (and what you can do instead if you want advice as well) when you're up to hearing about it.

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - stevehein - 06-24-2017 09:05 AM

(06-24-2017 08:51 AM)Depression101 Wrote:  Gwendin is now on discord, Steve, and I think he wants to speak to you.

thanks - i have never used discord- how do i get there?

(06-24-2017 08:57 AM)82744180714101 Wrote:  He won't be able to read PMs while he's banned.

I don't think banning Gwedin is a great move overall and I have some ideas about why (and what you can do instead if you want advice as well) when you're up to hearing about it.
actually i would prefer if first u tried to understand what led up to me banning him.

i will be more able to listen to your reasons why not to ban if if i first feel understood by u about why i did ban him.

i apologize that that is inconsistent with what i said about i will listen to everyone's feelings. right now i am mentally and physically drained.

Steve Hein's Thread - Depression101 - 06-24-2017 09:16 AM

You get through going here:

RE: Steve Hein's Thread - stevehein - 06-24-2017 09:22 AM

(06-24-2017 09:16 AM)Depression101 Wrote:  You get through going here:


i see you have to make an account... i assumed it was part of school survival

what if u, gweden and i talk here

you dont have to make an account.... just put in a first name and ur in.

edited 6/26 by sh