School Survival Forums
Lack of Physical Violence? - Printable Version

+- School Survival Forums (http://forums.school-survival.net)
+-- Forum: Learning, Youth Rights and School Survival (/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Youth Rights (/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Lack of Physical Violence? (/showthread.php?tid=21816)



Lack of Physical Violence? - Human V. 2.0 - 11-11-2005 03:30 PM

It is just me, or has there been a serious lack of physical violence in protests?

When we did protests in my middle school, we had three rules. The first rule was, you don't back down, until it becomes to risky. The second rule was, if it's not to risky, you do it. The third rule was, if it becomes risky, don't stop 'til blood spills. It seems more and more that many of the rebels are just doing small stuff. What happend to the graffiti? The getting the cops' face? The playing loud music, and being disruptive in the class?

Has America gone soft?


- SoulRiser - 11-12-2005 10:41 AM

look what gandhi accomplished without physically fighting anyone.

besides, using force against them just gives them a reason to use more force back. if you resist peacefully, then it makes them look really bad when they physically assault you. think about that.


- xcriteria - 11-13-2005 12:46 PM

Right, SoulRiser.

Even from a purely utilitarian perspective, there are methods that are far more effective, especially in the long term, than violence.

When protesting flawed education, remember you have truth, justice, and the situation of many others on your side. Step one is to share your story and perspectives, which the Internet makes way easier. Believe it or not, there are education researchers who have a genuine interest in helping people to receive a quality education, compatible with their individual nature.

So, rather than egging on the authoritarian response by means of violence, help to document what's wrong with the structure and functioning of schools.

Is it not helping you to prepare for your future, and to actually learn?

Is it causing you to experience boredom and distress?

Change _is_ possible, and violence isn't the solution.


*** This has been a paid advertisement from students for a real world ***


- Human V. 2.0 - 11-14-2005 01:05 PM

Hmm, well said, but, I would wonder why, if so many resources are avaliable to combat sad education, then, why has none of it worked?


- xcriteria - 11-14-2005 05:35 PM

Icarian Decoding Wrote:Hmm, well said, but, I would wonder why, if so many resources are avaliable to combat sad education, then, why has none of it worked?
Good question.

Well, what would you like to see in its place?

Sad education can't be effectively fought against without having some plan for how things could be and how to bring that about.

I think one of the biggest problems with the existing educational system is that students aren't treated as unique (except in extreme cases) and aren't given much choice in what to learn or how to go about learning it.

At least it's pretty widely recognized that there is something wrong with the system. The fact that the U.S. Congress enacted "No Child Left Behind" implies that many students are, in fact, left behind. Yet that legislation doesn't address the vital issues of student choice and individualized instruction -- or how much some students truly detest school.

If assessment methods are developed that enable would-be students to instead handle their education on their own (or with help from people they select) and then prove that they are in fact more educated than their school-going peers, the battle lines will be drawn, so to speak.

Independent learners would then be in a strong position to demand that they not be forced to attend school. Recent research into how learning works and individual differences provide further support for this position.

In the end, the government, the public, and parents will want to see proof that people are actually learning, and this will require some kind of standards and assessment. But at a minimum, students ought to be able to expect a substantial amount of input into how they go about learning required material, and even what mix of content is required ("flexible standards").

One sign of hope in terms of education research is http://consultingpupils.co.uk/. These people are advocating and doing research into actively seeking student opinions about their learning. This makes _total_ sense, and in hindsight it's crazy this is such a new idea (as far as I know). soundout.org is a site that's promoting student participation, but actually putting these ideas into practice does not tend to be easy.

Just having discussions like this on this site is a start. Accomplishing much of anything will require figuring out the perspectives, interests, and motives of the various players in the system (I mean everything from family, to schools, to government, to voters.) Some of these people are actively seeking improvement in the education system, there is a huge amount of variation in the level of support they will provide.

Protests done without such considerations, and without the backing of solid arguments and a presentation of changes that authorities are able and willing to accept are not likely to get very far.

Thoughts?


- Human V. 2.0 - 11-17-2005 03:32 PM

- I think one of the biggest problems with the existing educational system is that students aren't treated as unique (except in extreme cases) and aren't given much choice in what to learn or how to go about learning it.

Perhaps I am just special, but for some reason, it seems that people are over looking these things called electives. It seems to me, that even if there are not career fields presented that you are interested in, there is the oppertunity to have fun.

- At least it's pretty widely recognized that there is something wrong with the system. The fact that the U.S. Congress enacted "No Child Left Behind" implies that many students are, in fact, left behind. Yet that legislation doesn't address the vital issues of student choice and individualized instruction -- or how much some students truly detest school.

I would argue that they have recognized the failing in the school system, but cannot do anything about it, simply because of the funds required, and the fact that they cannot tailor to every single student's taste, but they can only try. Also, to reference the students detesting school, I would wonder if that is not them detesting school, but American simply becoming lazy.

- If assessment methods are developed that enable would-be students to instead handle their education on their own (or with help from people they select) and then prove that they are in fact more educated than their school-going peers, the battle lines will be drawn, so to speak. Independent learners would then be in a strong position to demand that they not be forced to attend school. Recent research into how learning works and individual differences provide further support for this position.

Yes, while it is true that some work independently better, where does socialization come into play? If we all learned at our own little hobbles that we call homes, would it not restrict us as to what we can learn? School provides you with a forum to learn, along with your peers, and that there is oppertunity to change the school, through participating in it. Don't like how the preppy kids always become class president? Run for it yourself! Don't like how the computers are managed? Join computer club! Don't like the athletic program? Petition to have it changed. I believe that the media for change is present, it is the fault of the students for not using it.

- In the end, the government, the public, and parents will want to see proof that people are actually learning, and this will require some kind of standards and assessment. But at a minimum, students ought to be able to expect a substantial amount of input into how they go about learning required material, and even what mix of content is required ("flexible standards".

No denying that every student learns at a different pace, but is the flexible standard actually a good thing? Would this flexible standard incorperate kids who cannot achieve academically, or would this just mask the lackings of someone, to candy coat thier inferiority? While I would like to think that idiots do not exist in this world, unfortunately they do, and at one point in the process, we are the idiot, but does that excuse the fact that some children refuse to learn. If we have the flexible standard, would that not excuse children to just brush off thier assigned work, and refuse to do it? How would this provide a basis for getting knowledge, if the students only get "What they want to hear"?


- One sign of hope in terms of education research is http://consultingpupils.co.uk/. These people are advocating and doing research into actively seeking student opinions about their learning. This makes _total_ sense, and in hindsight it's crazy this is such a new idea (as far as I know). soundout.org is a site that's promoting student participation, but actually putting these ideas into practice does not tend to be easy.

I am going to make a Star Trek reference here. Captain Picard [For those of you who do not like Star Trek, just skip ahead] once had the ship infested by an alien who thought that one of the children was being treated unfairly. Captain Picard then explained to this entity, that rules and standards were created to help and protect children. Would student participation make it so that the rules of the wise are torn down, and that insecure, unbased judgements are made? Not every student who lobbies a heavyweighted petition will do thier research, or look for the outcome. This would put many thousands of ideas into the pool, that would be looked on as "Smart" by the populous, because it touches thier lazy bone, but when infact it would be nothing but a plague to the people.

- Just having discussions like this on this site is a start. Accomplishing much of anything will require figuring out the perspectives, interests, and motives of the various players in the system (I mean everything from family, to schools, to government, to voters.) Some of these people are actively seeking improvement in the education system, there is a huge amount of variation in the level of support they will provide.

Yes, there is a huge level of variation, because each person is limited to what they can do. You may scream your head off as loud as you can, but in the end, what can you actually do? Will talking about it actually fix the problem?

- Protests done without such considerations, and without the backing of solid arguments and a presentation of changes that authorities are able and willing to accept are not likely to get very far.

And last time I checked, the children who did not like school, were failiing. Do we want to stick the need to protest in the hands of those, not willing to do research?