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2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - dreamer... - 02-09-2008 10:30 AM
Even though I hate school, I've been thinking....i don't want to sound pro-school, but...
1) It seems to me like a majority of people actually think school is good and necessary (maybe i'm wrong). we the school-haters, then, are in the minority. I believe that everyone's vote should count equally...aka egalitarianism. Since the majority of people think school is good, should it not remain in place? would making school optional violate the rights of the majority?
2) i was reading another forum, and one member made a post complaining about her job and people's stupidity and all the little annoying things in life. i sympathized. But then, further on, one response caught my eye, saying "i fight every day for my daughter's life, she is very sick and I work so hard just so she can stay alive. you are young and healthy and at least have a job. What else can you want?"
That really got me thinking. yes school positively sucks, but how can i compare my troubles to those of that poor dying daughter and her dad? This world has so many problems; shouldn't we fix the biggest ones first? Like hunger and AIDS and useless wars? then save things like school for later?
people, don't get me wrong. i'm not saying I firmly believe either of these points I made, they're just things that occurred to me and that i've been wondering about. i still think the school system needs to change....just not sure whether that should be our first priority in the world.
I'd like to hear your opinions on this.
- Eidolon - 02-09-2008 12:26 PM
Quote:would making school optional violate the rights of the majority?
No, because it's just what you said: optional. Those who don't want to, don't have to. And those who want to, can.
Quote:yes school positively sucks, but how can i compare my troubles to those of that poor dying daughter and her dad? This world has so many problems; shouldn't we fix the biggest ones first? Like hunger and AIDS and useless wars? then save things like school for later?
We shouldn't stop fighting for what we want just because some people are in a worse position than we are.
It may be more considerate to help fight hunger and AIDS and such, and perhaps we are. But that's not what this site is about.
- Will - 02-09-2008 01:40 PM
If the majority believed that all of the Jews had to be killed and a minority disagreed, we would follow the majority and kill all of the Jews. That's a really stupid idea, though, so I would try to prevent it.
The people who support school accept that whatever happens in school is necessary because people wouldn't learn certain things if they weren't forced to. The problem is that they believe that people need to go even if they don't want to.
If someone else got raped every day and you only got raped once a week, should you just be glad that you're not raped more often? You should not avoid improving your situation just because you're not starving like the children in Africa. You can be glad that you're better off than that, but you should still try to make yourself happier.
If you didn't try to improve your situation even though you sort of wanted to, you wouldn't became a mega smart scientist who cured AIDS, made a lot of money on his cure and decided it would be fun to help out said children in Africa by donating food and AIDS vaccines and funding education.
- dreamer... - 02-09-2008 05:51 PM
Eidolon Wrote:We shouldn't stop fighting for what we want just because some people are in a worse position than we are.
But shouldn't we fight to help those who are worse off before helping ourselves?
- Eidolon - 02-09-2008 06:19 PM
dreamer... Wrote:Eidolon Wrote:We shouldn't stop fighting for what we want just because some people are in a worse position than we are.
But shouldn't we fight to help those who are worse off before helping ourselves?
My response is this:
Quote:You should not avoid improving your situation just because you're not starving like the children in Africa. You can be glad that you're better off than that, but you should still try to make yourself happier.
- SoulRiser - 02-09-2008 06:28 PM
Sure, help others. But just remember that the worse off you are, the harder it is for you to help others. Be grateful if you are only mentally tormented 5 days a week while people are beaten half to death every day of the week, but maybe if you weren't being tormented at all, you'd have the mental strength to help more people.
Also, what Will said.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - Rebelnerd - 02-10-2008 02:46 AM
it's true, there are bigger problems than school. but remember, the major industrialized nations that have the money to support a good national education system are part of those problems. their people are the ones buying the clothes and toys made in sweatshops and following the leaders who bomb cities in the middle east. school helps keep the people in line so that they don't rock the boat. taking down the school system fosters free thought that could lead people to start waking up and fighting against those bigger problems.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - Thotwater - 02-10-2008 04:34 AM
Quote:yes school positively sucks, but how can i compare my troubles to those of that poor dying daughter and her dad? This world has so many problems; shouldn't we fix the biggest ones first? Like hunger and AIDS and useless wars? then save things like school for later?
Although some issues are more imperative than others, they should all be taken care of eventually. And though it may not be as urgent as useless wars and such, I would consider school a fairly important problem. After all, it dominates your life while you're being forced to attend.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - thewake - 02-10-2008 09:19 AM
dreamer... Wrote:1) Would making school optional violate the rights of the majority?Making school optional wouldn't because they could still go to school. IT may actually be them violating our rights. Did you ever think that?
Quote: This world has so many problems; shouldn't we fix the biggest ones first? Like hunger and AIDS and useless wars? then save things like school for later?How can we fix other people's problems that may seem bigger, unless we first have no problems of our own? It's like the dentist with yellow teeth who takes all his time making people with rotting brown teeth have white teeth and never attends to his own. Soon enough he's going to have rotting brown teeth anyhow. I mean, sure I feel for the people who have AIDS and who get killed in useless wars and maybe those things are worse than school. But how can I help those people with those big problems if I still have a problem too?
Besides, who's to say school isn't a big problem anyhow? I think it's the biggest brainwashing mechanism in, get this, history.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - Freak - 02-10-2008 09:45 AM
Ummm... yeah. There is no way in hell most people see school as good. Maybe necessary, but that's there ignorance of any other better solution.
Go to your school and see how many people enjoy school, ask the teachers what they think. The teachers will most likely say school may suck but it's a necessary evil. (Of course that's their ignorance of any better system.)
Some adults don't give a rats ass because they had to go through school and think since they had to do it we have to too.
And yes their are a lot more problems. But as Student said why can't we improve our situation? Besides, it's not like we are dedicated to any ONE cause. I can sit here and fight for youth rights', I can also fight corporatism and rich corporate asshole ripping of the rest of the population, and amazingly I can go to a peace rally and preach equality and help for the people starving in Africa.
It's stupid of you to think one can only dedicate themselves to one cause.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - Darthmat - 02-10-2008 10:13 AM
God damnit, people stole what I was gonna say. >[
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - dreamer... - 02-10-2008 06:02 PM
Freak Wrote:It's stupid of you to think one can only dedicate themselves to one cause.
very true, Freak, thanks for pointing that out.
And you guys' replies reminded me of why i hate school in the first place. As soon as I read what everyone said, I had an urge to take back everything i said, put my tail between my legs and run away expecting everybody to now hate me. School has trained me to fear the results of free thought and thinking differently than others.
at least i hope not everyone hates me now.
I still think reforming school should not be the world's priority. Not that we shouldn't resist it at all. hey, we all have our opinions.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - Darthmat - 02-11-2008 12:09 AM
I dun hate ya.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - Will - 02-11-2008 03:19 AM
dreamer... Wrote:Cool! As everyone always says I'm wrong, I keep trying to consider what they say and come up with other reasons for why I may be wrong, but I never manage to find any. This is frustrating because then I really understand that everything everyone says about school is bullshit.Freak Wrote:It's stupid of you to think one can only dedicate themselves to one cause.
very true, Freak, thanks for pointing that out.
And you guys' replies reminded me of why i hate school in the first place. As soon as I read what everyone said, I had an urge to take back everything i said, put my tail between my legs and run away expecting everybody to now hate me. School has trained me to fear the results of free thought and thinking differently than others.
at least i hope not everyone hates me now.
dreamer... Wrote:I still think reforming school should not be the world's priority. Not that we shouldn't resist it at all. hey, we all have our opinions.School being so messed-up as it is is part of a larger, inefficient, unnecessary, traditional additude about how we need to pray to some man in the sky, obey superiors and elders, avoid questioning, &c. It explains a lot of problems.
I don't plan on ever trying to reform school on a large scale. I know how stupid school is, so I'm going to avoid it and similar situations so I can take over the world. That in itself is a good use of my realization that school is evil. After I've done that, I'll be more influential, and only then would I make any attempt at reforming school on a large scale.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - SoulRiser - 02-11-2008 09:02 PM
Quote:And you guys' replies reminded me of why i hate school in the first place. As soon as I read what everyone said, I had an urge to take back everything i said, put my tail between my legs and run away expecting everybody to now hate me.
Why would anyone hate you?
Quote:I still think reforming school should not be the world's priority.
No worries, the odds of that ever becoming the world's priority are very, very slim.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - TheSovereign - 02-13-2008 07:39 AM
Look we're not all Jesus. Some people can go out and do their thing to make the world a better place, but we're focusing on the school system. It's stupid to say, "Oh! There are too many problems, better sit on my ass!" If everybody does their own thing, the world would be a little better.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - returnal - 02-13-2008 08:07 AM
dreamer... Wrote:Even though I hate school, I've been thinking....i don't want to sound pro-school, but...
1) It seems to me like a majority of people actually think school is good and necessary (maybe i'm wrong). we the school-haters, then, are in the minority. I believe that everyone's vote should count equally...aka egalitarianism. Since the majority of people think school is good, should it not remain in place? would making school optional violate the rights of the majority?
2) i was reading another forum, and one member made a post complaining about her job and people's stupidity and all the little annoying things in life. i sympathized. But then, further on, one response caught my eye, saying "i fight every day for my daughter's life, she is very sick and I work so hard just so she can stay alive. you are young and healthy and at least have a job. What else can you want?"
That really got me thinking. yes school positively sucks, but how can i compare my troubles to those of that poor dying daughter and her dad? This world has so many problems; shouldn't we fix the biggest ones first? Like hunger and AIDS and useless wars? then save things like school for later?
people, don't get me wrong. i'm not saying I firmly believe either of these points I made, they're just things that occurred to me and that i've been wondering about. i still think the school system needs to change....just not sure whether that should be our first priority in the world.
I'd like to hear your opinions on this.
1.This is why we have freedom of choice, we shouldn't waste our time conforming like everyone else does.
2. What matters first in our minds is in truth the most important thing.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - thewake - 02-13-2008 08:12 AM
TheSovereign Wrote:Look we're not all Jesus. Some people can go out and do their thing to make the world a better place, but we're focusing on the school system. It's stupid to say, "Oh! There are too many problems, better sit on my ass!" If everybody does their own thing, the world would be a little better.You know, that's probably the smartest thing I've read all day.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - dreamer... - 02-13-2008 11:16 AM
Okay, #1 was just me being an idiot, if school was optional of course it wouldn't violate anyone's rights. It would be democratic, because everyone could do what they want. i apologize for my stupidity.
#2, i'm still iffy. I guess to some people school might be the biggest issue in the world right now. that's their opinion, fine. But people are starving, dying on the battlefield, and being placed in solitary confinement for years because of their beliefs (as opposed to 1 hour detention). What Freak said before is very right, you can certainly dedicate your efforts to more than one cause. But as for fixing your problems first, i believe you CAN help others even if you have problems yourself. Tending only to what affects you seems rather selfish- one should try to help others as well, if they can. Of course, doing something to improve the world is always better than doing nothing.
it seems none of you agree with me...oh well, that's life.
Of course, i'll admit I'm just being hypocritical now. i'm sitting here in front of the computer instead of helping anybody at all.
Guess I'd better start practicing what I preach.
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - SoulRiser - 02-13-2008 09:28 PM
Quote:But as for fixing your problems first, i believe you CAN help others even if you have problems yourself. Tending only to what affects you seems rather selfish- one should try to help others as well, if they can. Of course, doing something to improve the world is always better than doing nothing.
That's true. And often by helping others you feel better yourself as well. But you have to be careful not to use the helping others thing to distract you from your own problems instead of solving them (unless they are currently unsolvable and will go away by themselves anyway... kinda like school).
Re: 2 Concerns about Anti-school-ness - Liquid - 02-15-2008 05:38 AM
dreamer... Wrote:Okay, #1 was just me being an idiot, if school was optional of course it wouldn't violate anyone's rights. It would be democratic, because everyone could do what they want. i apologize for my stupidity.
#2, i'm still iffy. I guess to some people school might be the biggest issue in the world right now. that's their opinion, fine. But people are starving, dying on the battlefield, and being placed in solitary confinement for years because of their beliefs (as opposed to 1 hour detention). What Freak said before is very right, you can certainly dedicate your efforts to more than one cause. But as for fixing your problems first, i believe you CAN help others even if you have problems yourself. Tending only to what affects you seems rather selfish- one should try to help others as well, if they can. Of course, doing something to improve the world is always better than doing nothing.
it seems none of you agree with me...oh well, that's life.
Of course, i'll admit I'm just being hypocritical now. i'm sitting here in front of the computer instead of helping anybody at all.
#1: You aren't an idiot, if you were then you wouldn't be questioning what you think in the first place. Questioning what you think and looking at all the facts will let you stand stronger if you prove to your self that you are right, or show you the way if you were wrong.
Making forced education optional does put us against the majority. But, the majority cannot always be right. When the majority infringes on the rights of the minority then does that mean the the "Will of the people" is right? "Pure" democracy can be just as "tyranical" as a dictatorship... (In fact "Tyrant" comes from a Greek work meaning a dictator elected by the people) Democracy and Freedom are not the same, that was why they wrote the "Bill of Rights" and why "democracies" are almost always mixed with "republics."
#2: The problems with education are way more far reaching then most people realize... by holding us down... it holds down the whole human race, also the "international" school system's sheer bulk and wastefulness are stealing reasources from better uses. Yes, a few cents could feed someone at the brink of starvation, we throw millions into the school system, we demolish our old school buildings to make way for the bigger and better... Why don't we spend a little building farms in parts of the world that at starving? Give them food AND jobs... Isn't it ironic that we go over there are build SCHOOLS while there isn't any running water... The worlds problems are all interrelated somehow. If we all fix our own problems then it will affect everyone around us and slowly make the world a better place. If we fix our own problems we can see clearly to fix the problems of others...
Take the log out of our own civilization's eye so to speak...