School Survival Forums
If something was never alive, is it dead? - Printable Version

+- School Survival Forums (http://forums.school-survival.net)
+-- Forum: The Lounge (/forumdisplay.php?fid=34)
+--- Forum: General Talk (/forumdisplay.php?fid=18)
+---- Forum: Philosophy, Politics & History (/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+---- Thread: If something was never alive, is it dead? (/showthread.php?tid=1202)



If something was never alive, is it dead? - Asder Miller - 04-09-2011 10:02 AM

My brother asked me that.

I know it sounds dumb, but we were stumped.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - Geeksta - 04-09-2011 11:10 AM

No, being dead means not alive.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - genuine anarchist - 04-09-2011 12:28 PM

No, because being dead implies that something once lived but was deprived of that ability.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - The Desert Fox - 04-09-2011 01:41 PM

genuine anarchist Wrote:No, because being dead implies that something once lived but was deprived of that ability.
This. Rocks, for example, aren't dead. They can't be dead, because they were never alive.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - LOON_ATTIC - 04-09-2011 03:37 PM

The Desert Fox Wrote:
genuine anarchist Wrote:No, because being dead implies that something once lived but was deprived of that ability.
This. Rocks, for example, aren't dead. They can't be dead, because they were never alive.
but some of their content may actually be from an organism which was once alive

YOUR ARGUMENTS IS INVALIDS


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - ___________________ - 04-09-2011 04:25 PM

The Desert Fox Wrote:
genuine anarchist Wrote:No, because being dead implies that something once lived but was deprived of that ability.
This. Rocks, for example, aren't dead. They can't be dead, because they were never alive.

[Image: Fossil-Fish-1.jpg]
MOTHERFUCKING FOSSILS BITCH


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - Leon Kinotolian - 04-09-2011 04:36 PM

Clock Maker Wrote:
The Desert Fox Wrote:
genuine anarchist Wrote:No, because being dead implies that something once lived but was deprived of that ability.
This. Rocks, for example, aren't dead. They can't be dead, because they were never alive.

[Image: Fossil-Fish-1.jpg]
MOTHERFUCKING FOSSILS BITCH
Fossil =/= Rock


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - TheCancer - 04-09-2011 09:45 PM

I think this is a good question and the answer isn't as obvious as people think. It's hard to distinguish living from dead and organic from inorganic. The boundaries are elusive. I believe the distinction that we think we see between living and non-living things is an illusion. Depending on your perspective you could say everything is alive and nothing is alive. No matter what we're looking at, we can't say definitively if the atoms that make up that object were ever a part of something we would traditionally define as living or not. Whether or not there was ever life on Mars, unless we discover Martians people will call it a 'dead' planet. And the way 'life' is defined in biology textbooks is an over-simplification. I understand that biologists need a working definition of life but I belive, in truth, it's not that simple. At what point does a fossil become a rock? Rocks have organic material.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - Asder Miller - 04-13-2011 11:12 AM

TheCancer Wrote:I think this is a good question and the answer isn't as obvious as people think. It's hard to distinguish living from dead and organic from inorganic. The boundaries are elusive. I believe the distinction that we think we see between living and non-living things is an illusion. Depending on your perspective you could say everything is alive and nothing is alive. No matter what we're looking at, we can't say definitively if the atoms that make up that object were ever a part of something we would traditionally define as living or not. Whether or not there was ever life on Mars, unless we discover Martians people will call it a 'dead' planet. And the way 'life' is defined in biology textbooks is an over-simplification. I understand that biologists need a working definition of life but I belive, in truth, it's not that simple. At what point does a fossil become a rock? Rocks have organic material.


So you're saying we need a clear definition of what life and non-life is?


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - LOON_ATTIC - 04-13-2011 03:40 PM

Depends on your definition of "dead".

If dead = not alive, and only, then the answer to the thread title would be yes.
If dead = no longer alive, then no.

/thread

It could be either one. Language is not some perfect binary shit invented by God or anything. Define it as you want. Shakespeare created his own words. Both definitions could be used depending on the context (even though the first one covers the second one and more... who cares?). You could call Mars "dead" because there's seemingly no life in there, but it looks as there might have, but you could also call Pluto dead, because it's all cold and desolate and shit. But chances are there was never life in there. Who cares?

I guess you could define "life" as anything functioning of our defined six kingdoms of life, maybe until we find some different alien shit or something. Or it finds us.
Anything that fucking moves and reproduces "by itself". Meh. But then comes the argument of whether viruses are life.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - TheCancer - 04-13-2011 09:09 PM

Asder Miller Wrote:
TheCancer Wrote:I think this is a good question and the answer isn't as obvious as people think. It's hard to distinguish living from dead and organic from inorganic. The boundaries are elusive. I believe the distinction that we think we see between living and non-living things is an illusion. Depending on your perspective you could say everything is alive and nothing is alive. No matter what we're looking at, we can't say definitively if the atoms that make up that object were ever a part of something we would traditionally define as living or not. Whether or not there was ever life on Mars, unless we discover Martians people will call it a 'dead' planet. And the way 'life' is defined in biology textbooks is an over-simplification. I understand that biologists need a working definition of life but I belive, in truth, it's not that simple. At what point does a fossil become a rock? Rocks have organic material.


So you're saying we need a clear definition of what life and non-life is?

No, I'm saying we can't really make one.

Quote:Who cares?

I think that's fair. Often with philosophical questions it becomes a breakdown on how we use language instaed of actually addressing the issue.


Quote: If something was never alive, is it dead?

My answer to that is 'yes'.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - psychopath - 04-13-2011 11:01 PM

Quote:Often with philosophical questions it becomes a breakdown on how we use language instaed of actually addressing the issue.

This is what's going on here, it's a pointless word game. Similar to when creationists try to "prove" god by playing silly word games.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - Thade_Chan - 04-13-2011 11:05 PM

The Desert Fox Wrote:
genuine anarchist Wrote:No, because being dead implies that something once lived but was deprived of that ability.
This. Rocks, for example, aren't dead. They can't be dead, because they were never alive.

Well, you can "kill" a rock by smashing it to millions of peices, therefore taking away it's previous state of being. Which would make it dead I believe.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - The Desert Fox - 04-14-2011 12:35 AM

Thade_Chan Wrote:
The Desert Fox Wrote:
genuine anarchist Wrote:No, because being dead implies that something once lived but was deprived of that ability.
This. Rocks, for example, aren't dead. They can't be dead, because they were never alive.

Well, you can "kill" a rock by smashing it to millions of peices, therefore taking away it's previous state of being. Which would make it dead I believe.
Me, in that exact same post Wrote:They can't be dead, because they were never alive.



Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - aaaaaaasd - 04-14-2011 12:46 AM

This thread is now rock discussion


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - username01462781 - 04-14-2011 08:54 AM

Am I killing a house if I demolish it?


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - LOON_ATTIC - 04-14-2011 09:27 AM

BaronVonStrangle Wrote:This thread is now rock discussion
Led zeppelin is cool.

Also, my MP3 player's battery is dead.


Re: If something was never alive, is it dead? - Geeksta - 04-14-2011 09:28 AM

If it's a domus mactabilis (monster house), yes.


RE: If something was never alive, is it dead? - Trekkie_Aspie - 02-01-2013 12:03 AM

A working definition of life is kinda all we've got though so I'd say no. It's not dead for the same reason that masturbating isn't the same thing as killing a toddler.


If something was never alive, is it dead? - HawkbitAlpha - 02-07-2013 04:50 AM

There's no point in living if you can't feel alive


RE: If something was never alive, is it dead? - Miller0700 - 02-07-2013 05:01 AM

That statement has a double meaning.