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Religion - SoulRiser - 05-02-2011 03:24 AM

Religion

'God' and life.
If God Really did love us, why would he make us me go through so much pain, that im at the point in my life, where i wish to just drop dead, if he wanted me to live, why would he make me want to kill myself? Ive recieved answers like 'He is testing you' and 'i cant answer that, you have to ask God yourself, and listen because he will answer'.

Irrelevancy
I have heard too much of evolutionists and creationists battling it out. It's stupid. Who really cares if we evolved or if God made us in his own image according to the good old Book of Genesis?
I, personally, don't take either as fact. Both are totally irrelevant to me. They don't matter. That doesn't mean I believe some other outlandish theory, I don't. I just don't concern myself with the vanity of finding where I've come from. It's irrelevant.

I dont get it.
Ok, so Christianity. I dont get it. Why do people believe in God. I asked myself this so many times when i was a kid being forced to be apart of this group.
But as i grew older, i asked myself more, "i dont get it". Everyone was praying, everyone wearing the cross, and everyone reciting stories of the bible, but no reason to why they believed.
Now, i am not saying 'Ok, show me proof that God exists', im just saying, that if he does, why should we follow him? Why should i have to join his group and do what he tells me?

The Bible and Christianity...
The "Bible" isn't the Bible at all. It was writen by MAN and not God or Jesus.
It has been changed by MAN through out the years and is so edited it shouldn't be in the religion anymore.
They quote quotes that are edited and have lost their meening.


RE: Religion - EvilClown007 - 10-22-2012 04:42 AM

Quote:If God Really did love us, why would he make us me go through so much pain, that im at the point in my life, where i wish to just drop dead, if he wanted me to live, why would he make me want to kill myself? Ive recieved answers like 'He is testing you' and 'i cant answer that, you have to ask God yourself, and listen because he will answer'.

Good point, but as you also said the Bible is written by man not by God. People who say these things to you just say that because it's in the Bible. But its not a reliable source, so that's pretty stupid i think..


Quote:I have heard too much of evolutionists and creationists battling it out. It's stupid. Who really cares if we evolved or if God made us in his own image according to the good old Book of Genesis?
I, personally, don't take either as fact. Both are totally irrelevant to me. They don't matter. That doesn't mean I believe some other outlandish theory, I don't. I just don't concern myself with the vanity of finding where I've come from. It's irrelevant.

I don't think it's irrelevant. A lot of human behaviour I think can be explained by evolution. And it's not just a theory. As you can read on wikipedia: Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge This is significantly different from the word "theory" in common usage, which implies that something is unproven or speculative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory


Quote:Ok, so Christianity. I dont get it. Why do people believe in God. I asked myself this so many times when i was a kid being forced to be apart of this group.
But as i grew older, i asked myself more, "i dont get it". Everyone was praying, everyone wearing the cross, and everyone reciting stories of the bible, but no reason to why they believed.
Now, i am not saying 'Ok, show me proof that God exists', im just saying, that if he does, why should we follow him? Why should i have to join his group and do what he tells me?

I guess all christians believe that most or all of the Bible is true so they believe you HAVE to be born again or you wont go to heaven.


Religion - GreenLamp - 10-22-2012 07:59 AM

If we have no designer, how did we get here? One cell is more complicated than a rocket ship. Not saying that god is real, because I am currently undecided. But how? Billions of years ago, we just appeared from nothing and evolved into everything?


RE: Religion - Heil_Kaiba8921 - 10-22-2012 12:47 PM

(10-22-2012 07:59 AM)GreenLamp Wrote:  If we have no designer, how did we get here? One cell is more complicated than a rocket ship. Not saying that god is real, because I am currently undecided. But how? Billions of years ago, we just appeared from nothing and evolved into everything?

1. Apparently, the string theory (nothing was like "fuck it, I'm blowing up today" and created everything) is extremely plausible now because scientists "recreated" what they say happened and made an atom that they called "The God atom" (ironic huh?)

2. I would really like to know if we are just retarded fish/monkey/bird/squirrel/turtle/banana/dog babies as well, but until I convince The Doctor to let me travel with him to find out, we will never know.


RE: Religion - Thought Criminal - 10-23-2012 08:51 AM

God doesn't exist. I'm open to the possibility of some sort of deity but I see it as highly unlikely and ridiculous. Even if we were created by some divine being, who is he to judge us on our actions when he won't even prove his existence?


RE: Religion - Sociopath - 10-23-2012 08:53 AM

(10-22-2012 07:59 AM)GreenLamp Wrote:  If we have no designer, how did we get here? One cell is more complicated than a rocket ship. Not saying that god is real, because I am currently undecided. But how? Billions of years ago, we just appeared from nothing and evolved into everything?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

after which;

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evolution


Religion - GreenLamp - 10-24-2012 07:25 AM

Thankees.


Religion - AtheistLGBTQAnarchist - 10-24-2012 10:06 AM

Religion is way more serious and confusing than politics,fact. I'm trying to cheer me up from my suicidal thoughts just so you know.


Religion - SoulRiser - 10-24-2012 10:08 PM

If you can't prove a belief is true, you need to ask yourself this... does the belief make life more pleasant and/or interesting?

If yes, might as well carry on believing it - even if it isn't true, it's still doing some good.
If no, might as well dump it. It's not doing any good whether it's true or false.

Or if you like being as 'realistic' as possible, by all means insist on only believing things that can be scientifically proven. Just don't try to make me join you, 'cause it sounds boring as hell to me. Razz


Religion - Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh - 11-01-2012 02:08 PM

"Beliefs are only there to comfort the stupid from what they don't know."

"The reason for evil in the world, is because they believe in religion."

Ahh, the traditional atheist... I find them just as naive as any religious person. Morons, who spend their time arguing a flawed argument with flawed principles.


In my own opinion, being agnostic is the most correct ideal. Agnosticism allows for us to decide on things based around the concept of open-mindedness and neutrality.

But you guys seem to be right, in my eyes. Remember -- Your opinion on anything should be just as valued as anyone else's opinion, so long as it is based off of factual evidence and reasoning.


RE: Religion - Godzillaman - 11-01-2012 11:16 PM

(10-22-2012 07:59 AM)GreenLamp Wrote:  If we have no designer, how did we get here? One cell is more complicated than a rocket ship. Not saying that god is real, because I am currently undecided. But how? Billions of years ago, we just appeared from nothing and evolved into everything?

God exists.


RE: Religion - Sociopath - 11-02-2012 02:47 AM

(11-01-2012 02:08 PM)Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh Wrote:  "Beliefs are only there to comfort the stupid from what they don't know."

"The reason for evil in the world, is because they believe in religion."

Ahh, the traditional atheist... I find them just as naive as any religious person. Morons, who spend their time arguing a flawed argument with flawed principles.


In my own opinion, being agnostic is the most correct ideal. Agnosticism allows for us to decide on things based around the concept of open-mindedness and neutrality.

But you guys seem to be right, in my eyes. Remember -- Your opinion on anything should be just as valued as anyone else's opinion, so long as it is based off of factual evidence and reasoning.
Being an atheist doesn't carry any flawed arguments. While I have nothing against agnosticism itself, applying agnosticism to anything that really shouldn't even be considered is somewhat unorthodox. You might as well be unsure if invisible unicorns exist, or fairies, or leprechauns.

What we should all be sure to remember, is that an existence exists regardless of our belief in it. SO! There either is or isn't a god, its as simple as that. How we come to think of or know about this is irrelevant. If its true that god doesn't exist, then atheism is correct, regardless of any arguments, premises, or such because the conclusion "god doesn't exist" is true.

As per your "not being open-minded"...you're doing it wrong. See this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Open_mind

Quote:God exists.
Prove it.


Religion - AtheistLGBTQAnarchist - 11-02-2012 08:13 AM

Aaaaaaaa, you're no better. Godzillaman,what Sociopath said. Sociopath, I'm Atheist and where is SomeRandomHuman?


Religion - AtheistLGBTQAnarchist - 11-02-2012 08:14 AM

Also I converted over a week ago from Christianity to Atheism encase you were stalking my comments.


RE: Religion - Godzillaman - 11-02-2012 10:54 AM

(11-02-2012 02:47 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  
(11-01-2012 02:08 PM)Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh Wrote:  "Beliefs are only there to comfort the stupid from what they don't know."

"The reason for evil in the world, is because they believe in religion."

Ahh, the traditional atheist... I find them just as naive as any religious person. Morons, who spend their time arguing a flawed argument with flawed principles.


In my own opinion, being agnostic is the most correct ideal. Agnosticism allows for us to decide on things based around the concept of open-mindedness and neutrality.

But you guys seem to be right, in my eyes. Remember -- Your opinion on anything should be just as valued as anyone else's opinion, so long as it is based off of factual evidence and reasoning.
Being an atheist doesn't carry any flawed arguments. While I have nothing against agnosticism itself, applying agnosticism to anything that really shouldn't even be considered is somewhat unorthodox. You might as well be unsure if invisible unicorns exist, or fairies, or leprechauns.

What we should all be sure to remember, is that an existence exists regardless of our belief in it. SO! There either is or isn't a god, its as simple as that. How we come to think of or know about this is irrelevant. If its true that god doesn't exist, then atheism is correct, regardless of any arguments, premises, or such because the conclusion "god doesn't exist" is true.

As per your "not being open-minded"...you're doing it wrong. See this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Open_mind

Quote:God exists.
Prove it.

Quote from Lion King "I'm surrounded by idiots." Where did we come from? I am not a Younger-Earth creationist, but I am 100% a Catholic, but I can tell you that the universe couldn't have always been here without creation. I partially believe in the big bang. I say "partially" because it was not just triggered by heat. There had to be something that started the big bang. Scientists have even proved that God exists. Einstein said so himself. Proof? Here: http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

Here: http://www.doesgodexist.org/

And here: http://realtruth.org/articles/070601-006-teog.html

I believe in evolution, the big bang, and a lot of other scientific things. I believe that God started them all! If science proves God's existence, what can counter that? NOTHING!


Religion - AtheistLGBTQAnarchist - 11-02-2012 11:40 AM

Do you believe nothing exist for a reason, it's just there? Science isn't here to please us, it just exist, maybe just for no reason. We don't need gravity, it's just there. We don't need the Earth to exist, it's there. We don't need to exist, but here we are. Also I will never listen to a book full of clueless men who don't know what science is and judge people for who they love. I will never be part of a group that kills people despite their beliefs being about peace. I REFUSE TO LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT WANTS WORLD PEACE, BUT KILLS ITSELF OVER DIFFERENT BELIEFS IT ALSO DECIDED TO HAVE! We don't need to exist and as humans we don't deserve to exist, all we did was break the flow of nature on Earth.


Religion - AtheistLGBTQAnarchist - 11-02-2012 11:44 AM

You can choose to deny my beliefs all you want, you're going to die in decades and because people refuse to believe in science and evolution we want have the technology to force ourselves into living longer somehow. Now if you excuse me I'm going to study how the human mind works so I can find all its flaws because obviously cancer and violence just can't be enough.


RE: Religion - Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh - 11-02-2012 01:07 PM

(11-02-2012 02:47 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  
(11-01-2012 02:08 PM)Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh Wrote:  "Beliefs are only there to comfort the stupid from what they don't know."

"The reason for evil in the world, is because they believe in religion."

Ahh, the traditional atheist... I find them just as naive as any religious person. Morons, who spend their time arguing a flawed argument with flawed principles.


In my own opinion, being agnostic is the most correct ideal. Agnosticism allows for us to decide on things based around the concept of open-mindedness and neutrality.

But you guys seem to be right, in my eyes. Remember -- Your opinion on anything should be just as valued as anyone else's opinion, so long as it is based off of factual evidence and reasoning.
Being an atheist doesn't carry any flawed arguments. While I have nothing against agnosticism itself, applying agnosticism to anything that really shouldn't even be considered is somewhat unorthodox. You might as well be unsure if invisible unicorns exist, or fairies, or leprechauns.

What we should all be sure to remember, is that an existence exists regardless of our belief in it. SO! There either is or isn't a god, its as simple as that. How we come to think of or know about this is irrelevant. If its true that god doesn't exist, then atheism is correct, regardless of any arguments, premises, or such because the conclusion "god doesn't exist" is true.

As per your "not being open-minded"...you're doing it wrong. See this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Open_mind

Quote:God exists.
Prove it.

Wow. I didn't even realize.

Sorry about that. It won't happen again.

But, saying that there is no god, still requires a leap of faith, just in the disbelief of a god.. It's just not as big, of course, as whatever the hell the Pope is asking you to jump off of.

"Go ahead. Take that step. The religious nuts are over there in the corner, leaping off of cliffs. You're here. stepping down from a small hill. I? I'll stand here. I'll wait until it's safe to go down."

--

"You're just as ignorant."

It depends on what aspect of me you think is ignorant. My views? Yep. My acceptance of other view? Yep. My generalization of School-Survival's views? Yep.

If you meant that in any other way, I ask that you specify.

--

"


RE: Religion - Sociopath - 11-02-2012 01:30 PM

Quote:Quote from Lion King "I'm surrounded by idiots."
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html

Please keep a civil tongue.

Quote:Where did we come from?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

and then

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Quote:but I can tell you that the universe couldn't have always been here without creation
You can also tell me you're spiderman. You can tell me anything, same as anyone. But the important thing is, can you prove the world was created by divine intervention?

Quote:because it was not just triggered by heat. There had to be something that started the big bang.
Again; proof, please?

Quote:Scientists have even proved that God exists.
Which scientist? What "proof" does he/she offer? Is he/she credible? What experiments did he/she/they run? Is it peer-reviewed? What journal was it published in? Is the journal reliable?

Quote:Einstein said so himself. Proof? Here
...

Firstly, just because someone says so, does not make it so. It must be an objective fact outside the control of an authority: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/authorit.html

(TL;DR - just because an authority says so doesn't make it true, not unless they have evidence)

Secondly, Einstein did believe in a concept of god, but not the christian god. Einstein was a pantheist ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism )

Quotes: "A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man." (notice how he doesn't reference the christian god, nor god's teachings, but rather, simple nature.)

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." (he says so himself, he doesn't believe a personal god."

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." (final nail in the coffin.)

There's no reason to believe that simply because things seem perfect or whatever "intelligent design" that lingers seemingly that proves god's existence...nature can and has produced these things itself, as with the physical laws of the universe. Why people must ascribe it to a god I've no idea. I still think they're just afraid to die.

rest assured, all of these "arguments" you link to have been addressed and refuted;

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Category:Arguments_for_the_existence_of_a_god

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Arguments_for_the_existence_of_god

Go on, pick one, and be amazed about how wrong it is.


RE: Religion - Godzillaman - 11-02-2012 11:11 PM

(11-02-2012 11:40 AM)AmericanAtheistAnarchist Wrote:  Do you believe nothing exist for a reason, it's just there? Science isn't here to please us, it just exist, maybe just for no reason. We don't need gravity, it's just there. We don't need the Earth to exist, it's there. We don't need to exist, but here we are. Also I will never listen to a book full of clueless men who don't know what science is and judge people for who they love. I will never be part of a group that kills people despite their beliefs being about peace. I REFUSE TO LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT WANTS WORLD PEACE, BUT KILLS ITSELF OVER DIFFERENT BELIEFS IT ALSO DECIDED TO HAVE! We don't need to exist and as humans we don't deserve to exist, all we did was break the flow of nature on Earth.

Humans are no different from any other animal? Us, along with every other animal are here on Earth for a reason. I never said I believed in everything the Bible said. Because it is pretty obvious that it is not 100% fact. It is probably not all of God's true words. But I can tell you this now though I don't believe in some of the Bible, I still believe in God and Jesus. They both exist in our world. You choose not to believe in either, that's fine, but I do. So please, don't be so judemental.


RE: Religion - Godzillaman - 11-02-2012 11:13 PM

Quote:Where did we come from?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

and then

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Dude, I already said that I believed in evolution! I'm not a Young-Earth Creationist! Evolution was started by God. What if God created the very first lifeforms, and triggered them to evolve? THAT is the truth!


RE: Religion - Sociopath - 11-03-2012 03:27 AM

(11-02-2012 11:13 PM)Godzillaman Wrote:  
Quote:Where did we come from?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

and then

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Dude, I already said that I believed in evolution! I'm not a Young-Earth Creationist! Evolution was started by God. What if God created the very first lifeforms, and triggered them to evolve? THAT is the truth!
You need proof to say it's the "truth." So I will reiterate;

WHERE. IS. YOUR. PROOF?


Religion - AtheistLGBTQAnarchist - 11-03-2012 08:46 AM

I found some Youtube gold as an Atheist while lurking the Atheism subreddit, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0A4_bwCaX0&feature=fvwrel


Religion - AtheistLGBTQAnarchist - 11-03-2012 08:47 AM

Make sure to read the newer ones also, I can really feel where this guy is coming from(aka the actual Bible). Sorry I keep double posting, editing things just annoys me.


RE: Religion - Godzillaman - 11-03-2012 08:47 AM

(11-03-2012 03:27 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  
(11-02-2012 11:13 PM)Godzillaman Wrote:  
Quote:Where did we come from?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

and then

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Dude, I already said that I believed in evolution! I'm not a Young-Earth Creationist! Evolution was started by God. What if God created the very first lifeforms, and triggered them to evolve? THAT is the truth!
You need proof to say it's the "truth." So I will reiterate;

WHERE. IS. YOUR. PROOF?

I. GAVE. YOU. PROOF!


Religion - Godzillaman - 11-03-2012 08:49 AM

I ALREADY TOLD ALL OF YOU, I AM NOT A YOUNG-EARTH CREATIONIST! I am a Catholic Evolutionist that believes in God, Jesus, and science all at the same time! Believing in God doesn't mean being a Young-Earth Creationist. In fact, being a scientist doesn't mean being an Atheist.


RE: Religion - Ky - 11-03-2012 08:53 AM

(11-03-2012 03:27 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  WHERE. IS. YOUR. PROOF?
You exist, do you not?


Religion - AtheistLGBTQAnarchist - 11-03-2012 08:56 AM

Do you believe homosexuality is o.k or not? Also is abortion o.k? How many sins do you think are unreasonable like the ones I just mentioned? Did God or something that involves science create the Earth? Do you believe humanity is evolving or devolving? Did you ever read an entire Bible? Is it God's will to allow or disallow humans to make a global expansion they can live on before the Earth dies? Did you even bother to read all if even any of my questions beside this one? EDIT BONUS QUESTION: Did God create us from dirt, or did cells,atoms,DNA, and more scientific things that exist in all life create us?


RE: Religion - Sociopath - 11-03-2012 10:36 AM

Quote:I. GAVE. YOU. PROOF!
A bunch of whiny half-ramblings that already been disproved doesn't count as proof. Please show where god is.

Quote:You exist, do you not?
Still not proof. Abiogenesis, evolution, and 2 highschool fuckers made me who I am today.


RE: Religion - Godzillaman - 11-03-2012 11:14 AM

(11-03-2012 08:56 AM)AmericanAtheistAnarchist Wrote:  Do you believe homosexuality is o.k or not? Also is abortion o.k? How many sins do you think are unreasonable like the ones I just mentioned? Did God or something that involves science create the Earth? Do you believe humanity is evolving or devolving? Did you ever read an entire Bible? Is it God's will to allow or disallow humans to make a global expansion they can live on before the Earth dies? Did you even bother to read all if even any of my questions beside this one? EDIT BONUS QUESTION: Did God create us from dirt, or did cells,atoms,DNA, and more scientific things that exist in all life create us?
Did I not tell you already? God did not create us from dirt! He created everything that science agrees with. He created the big bang, evolution, and all living things through the scientific process! It won't hurt just to believe in God. You can still believe in science if you want. Believing in God does not mean believing in everything the Bible says.